The old Denon also had lots of secondary functions and button combo’s. 
Perhaps 12inch skins could make new versions available as the OS progresses.
The thing about Pioneer is that they just make a new face-plate with new functions, in the form of new device…
C’mon man…this bullshaite. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Either you take the pioneer way and get new features only when you buy a mk2 model (but with everything properly labeled)
Or you take the Denon way and get 7+ years (!!!) of free updates and new features that need to use existing hardware buttons/knobs.
“Kme, I need to read the manual to learn how to use sampler…” Seriously, what is wrong with you people !!!
PS Damn, I really need to check the internet for my timeline…SC5000…launched Jan 2017 
that said i agree with you about the key combination to make the loop active, remembering that it is left arrow + loop pad is not necessarily the most intuitive way to have implemented it
i think something like shift + loop encoder push would probably make more sense
I’m sorry if I offended you, but there is nothing wrong with looking at competition in a relaxed way and analyse their strong and weak points. What is the point of having cake and not being able to eat it anyway
If you think I am just bashing Denon, then you are wrong. But the button labels being outdated is a downside of their approach. I don’t use the “extra” functions that much, as @Gaian pointed out, but with a clear UI this shouldn’t matter. On Engine OS however it does, you forget where the extra functions are when you don’t use them. This is not an advantage, that’s a clear downside…
Regarding what is wrong with people: mindlessly bashing a brand is just as wrong as mindlessly defending it… The truth is still out there…
Indeed, making a hardware upgrade “mandatory” to use new functions. But there is a middle road, for example releasing a mkii with new button labels, but still retaining backward compatibility. Making a hardware upgrade optional…
I was surprised that stems don’t have any labels. The next gen probably will but the P4+ and Prime Go+ launched while stems was a thing, albeit beta on the P4+.
Slip is another that’s been added on the original P-Go.
Saying that, the parameter buttons have different usages depending on what mode you’re in so it could get cluttered with everything listed on the faceplate. Stems use them as acapella & instrumental buttons so which mode would we prefer to get priority on the labelling?
When somebody complains online that they need to read a manual to learn how to use a new feature that was added that is not a relaxed analysis.
But it is funny…
Proceed mr Johan, proceed…
Well, given the amount of electronic devices that are released to the market today without a paper manual, this isn’t as funny as you think…
There is a lot of research going on about user interfaces and making them as intuitive as possible, so the user really does not need a manual. And many products, like cars, TV tuners, household appliances, operating systems not limited to those by Apple, and many more succeed in this quest. Unlike with VCRs in the 90s, reading manuals is really optional today, and meant more for troubleshooting… A device that has functions which are undiscoverable without a manual is really an anachronism.
But you go ahead and study your manual Mr. SlayForMoney. I hope you don’t forget anything during your DJ set, because if your crowd will be as broad thinking as you are, they will probably point and laugh because it was really all in the manual 
Thats the complexity of it. But if a button has too many functions for a Label, it probably has too many functions for remembering by heart too…
In some cases this is solved by small LCD screens, or nameless function buttons beneath the screen, labeled by the screen… not sure thats a good way to go though.
Anyway, I had a HC4500 once, with a really complex DIY Traktor mapping. But I ditched it for a Kontrol S4 because I couldn’t remember all the hidden functions I mapped myself. Now with the SC6000 I start having this deja vu feeling, and it isn’t because of the Denon nametag on it 
Miller’s theory of cognitive load, and Hicks law both should come into play here, especially for the older DJs!
A few more buttons on a new player would be nice for me as I am beginning to struggle to remember how many functions each button has. The amount of times I’ve pressed the nudge button trying to get stems in acappella or vocal mode on is ridiculous 
I had a look at the Reloop Mixtour Pro but it is even worse. I get it’s a compact controller but the amount of multiple press or shift options was scary. I’d never ever remember them from one gig to the next.
Yeah. The intro video by Luke is funny to watch. Shift, double press.
When I use a secondary function regularly i remember where it is.
Another argument could be what if CDJ guys want to use SC players….That would be like when I’m driving a rental….i know where the pedals and steering wheel is…every other function I figure out.
I still get to my destination…so far so good.
Very competent opinion mate. I mean this: What you wrote, applies in general. Not just within InMusic. In general, the single player market is declining. Maybe the way to go is to make all-in-one devices like the XDJ-AZ. Same size jogwheels as standalone players, same size and layout of controls, but all in one package - smaller, lighter, etc. Even smaller clubs around the world now prefer large standalone systems like the XDJ-XZ or AZ. The same ease of use and layout as standalone players + 4 ch. mixer.
I can understand your point of view
I personally find that standalone all-in-one systems make sense for mobile DJs, who need a device that is easily transportable, relatively compact and lightweight, quick and easy to set up.
But for clubs where the setup is fixed, and where it is not expected to be constantly unplugged and replugged, I think that systems consisting of a mixer and separate players make more sense.
If one of your decks goes bad for some reason and needs to be sent back for repair or maintenance, you can easily replace it with another player. With an all-in-one system, you have to send the whole unit back and end up with another complete setup as a backup.
And as long as there is a market for separate mixers whether they are A&H, Denon, Pioneer DJ/AT, or even analog mixer brands like PlayDifferently or Mastersounds, or even rotary mixers, there will be a market for separate players.
Maybe of course this market will become even more of a niche than it is today compared to standalone all-in-one systems which also make a lot more sense and cost less money for amateur/bedroom DJs. But I think it will continue to exist.
Standalone systems are becoming more popular indeed. Even for small clubs: the bar is more important than the DJ booth, so every inch they can cut on the DJ booth will be cut. And Djs can just bring their own controller, so tech riders are obsolete.
The redundancy argument doesn’t really fly (with a lot of things), because there will always be a single point of failure: the mixer, the amp rack, … Last Saturday I was playing in the bar where the cooling fins of the amps where probably under a thick layer of dust: the amp for the tops went into protection 2 times. Anyway, In my experience most bar/club owners just don’t really care about the DJ booth: cheapest option will do, maintenance is non-existent. bring-your-own-gear becomes popular fast for this reason alone…
Now personally, I still prefer separate players, and I do care them myself to gigs. But thats because I play a lot of back to back, and having 2 displays allows you to browse while the other guy is cueing/beatmatching/mixing… But if it weren’t for the back to back part I would have bought a Prime 4. And InMusic can’t manufacture low volumes just to cater for my specific needs: if the SC6000 does sell enough to be profitable it gets cut…
There might be a very small sales hit on the Prime 4 when the separate player line gets cut though, because some people might think Engine is not a professional product line when they don’t have “professional separate players”. It’s a bogus argument, but people are creatures of habit.
Separate players have always been the flagship of a brand in this industry. Especially for a professional audience, where it will be what will make the difference between a brand intended for bedroom DJs or amateurs and brands that target a professional audience. It gives a certain credibility to the brand to have a range of products really oriented towards professionals.
Let’s take a few examples:
A brand like Hercules is in the collective unconscious a brand very oriented towards amateurs, not to say beginners, it is probably enough to have a little fun at home and discover mixing, but no professional will ever seem really credible with this type of equipment.
A brand like Reloop, targets the Semi pro, I am not a big fan of their controllers but some of their products are interesting, notably their turntables, the RMX 95 or Reloop Elite tables, you are already much more credible as professionals with this type of equipment. I also don’t hear much talk of problems with these product lines.
There was a time when Relopp still made players but they dropped this segment, they didn’t even rush into the standalone segment, they stayed mainly on the controller segment and target more Home DJs (similar positioning to Numark)
For the professional public what is really left? Denon/Rane for nomadic professional DJs and Pioneer DJ/Alphatheta for clubs, festivals and event rentals
If tomorrow Denon stopped producing separate players, it would still lose a certain aura, that of being the eternal great rival of Pioneer, which plays in the same league as Pioneer. And even if the standalones remain very good for the target market, the brand would lose credibility. And Denon would find itself at best in the same league as Reloop, with a semi-pro brand image in the best case.
The presence in the range of players and a mixer is what allows Denon DJ to stay in the same league as Pioneer DJ, and therefore to remain a credible alternative.
Actually, Hercules started out as a graphics card and then sound card manufacturer. They where clearly geared towards the gaming industry. A DJ controller released by them may have been popular with youngsters into computer games, but for anyone serious about DJing, thats a real turnoff. Due to that history I don’t even consider Hercules a DJ brand
I think VirtualDJ faces similar brand image problems: they started AtomixMP3 in 2000, in an age where controllers didn’t exist yet, and legal MP3s where not available yet. The screen colors didn’t help either. So it had “amateur” written all over it: real DJs where playing with legally bought CDs on a player with buttons. Serato and Traktor Scratch came later, and where taken seriously due to an SL1200 being involved. And then the controller industry blossomed, because timecode had some inherent latency flaws when jumping playhead position. If you say VirtualDJ, I still think of the first look I had of a digital DJing application on the cluncky CRT screen of my Athlon XP, and the disbelief I had at the time…
Brand image is important
