Feedback after purchasing a Denon Prime – disappointing compared to Pioneer

General Area
1

I recently purchased a Denon Prime top-of-the-line unit from All4Music, Bologna (Italy).

At the time of purchase, the store compared it to Pioneer’s products, presenting it as an “equal alternative” to Pioneer standalone units.

After extensive use in live situations, I can say this comparison is not correct at all.

Key issues compared to Pioneer (even an entry-level XDJ-RR):

  1. SYNC behaviour – On Denon, SYNC is deactivated as soon as you touch the jog wheel. There is no option to keep SYNC always on. This creates unnecessary risks during a live performance. On Pioneer, SYNC remains active unless you decide to turn it off.

  2. Match engine – Denon’s “Match” feature is far less effective than Pioneer’s. Even with a perfectly prepared library (straight BPMs, accurate grids, cue points), it often fails to find obvious matches that Pioneer detects instantly.

  3. Workflow & reliability – Pioneer offers a predictable, stable workflow: what you expect is what you get. Denon’s system, even on the flagship model, feels inconsistent in live use, forcing you to constantly double-check basic functions.

  4. Hardware controls – Despite being a flagship model, the button feel and jog response are noticeably inferior to those of an entry-level Pioneer XDJ-RR.

  5. Marketing & comparison – It’s misleading to present these two brands as if they offer the same type of machine. They do not. Pioneer’s priority is stability and reliability in live performance; Denon focuses on adding many features that, in practice, are not as functional in professional use.

In my opinion, even an entry-level Pioneer XDJ-RR – with “less pro” features on paper – is superior in real-world DJ performance to a Denon Prime flagship.

The result? Wasted time, wasted money, and unnecessary frustration in live situations.

It’s purely a matter of cost: Denon sells at a lower price, but the live experience is simply not on par.

I strongly believe resellers like All4Music Bologna should provide accurate, realistic comparisons rather than presenting Denon and Pioneer as equivalent products – because they are not.

2 Likes
2

Firstly, you should provide specifics to address each numbered point you make, this is too vague for anyone to even answer, it just reads as ‘nothing’ comments.

Secondly, if you have an issue with retailers and their opinions on gear, take it up with them, nobody here has any impact on their opinion.

3 Likes
3

It’s sad to hear that you feel this way. However:

actually not 100% true: when you touch the jog sync falls into a mode where only the BPM is matched, but not the beatgrid. Same goes for Traktor and Pioneer. It’s quite logical: you cannot maintain sync when you manually nudge a records tempo. And switching off the jog would be impractical either, because sometimes you encounter less than perfect beatgrids where you must nudge a records tempo….

can’t comment on this, as I didn’t use the match feature on Pioneer. You do have an option where you can set the key matching to “fuzzy”, where the match feature will show more matches… Maybe try this?

Point 5 being irrelevant for Denon (take that up with your dealer), point 3 and 4 are too broad to comment on. But I am sure you can find features on the Pioneer that work better than on Denon. But this isn’t a one way street, the opposite is also true for other features, some features don’t even exist on Pioneer. But ofcourse your workflow will have to adapt to the Denon ecosystem.

I suggest you fully use your 30-day return period if you bought online to thoroughly use and test the device, and make a decision when you at least tried to adapt to Denon.

11 Likes
4

Johan has said it all here.

Nothing to add on point 1; it’s completely logical. If my grids aren’t perfect and I have to manually correct them using the jog wheel, I wouldn’t want to have to disable sync first, which would waste my time. The current mode, which preserves the tempo but allows for fine-tuning, is therefore the best compromise.

Regarding point 2, I’ll add that “match,” when set to fuzzy mode in the “match” settings, is incredibly effective. I even find it more intuitive than the Pioneer system.

Simply set the match rule to fuzzy and enable match to get all compatible tracks within the bpm range defined in the match rules. You don’t have to worry about anything else after that. If a track doesn’t appear, it’s either because the harmonic key isn’t compatible or because it’s outside the defined bpm range.

Regarding point 3, please specify what exactly bothers you. Personally, when using a Prime 2 quite a bit, nothing is too disruptive. A good DJ must know how to adapt, even with a different layout. It would be a bit like saying you drive a different car than your everyday car, but you don’t know how to drive it because the climate control isn’t in exactly the same place.

The basic functions are in the same place: play/pause, jog, pitch, pads, EQ, faders… The only things that may vary are the use of the dual effects box, which may require a little getting used to, but it’s not insurmountable once you understand the logic.

4 - Perhaps the only point where I can agree with you here:

I don’t really like the “plastic” feel of the InMusic buttons used by both Denon and Rane. Even though they now have a rubber coating, they’re still clearly fragile plastic buttons, especially the Play/Pause/Cue buttons, which are probably the most heavily used of all.

The Pioneer buttons for these functions are also plastic, but with a slightly more “metal” feel. That said, the plastic used by Pioneer for these buttons is probably less fragile/more durable than those used by Denon.

I think InMusic clearly needs to rework these buttons to give them a less plasticky click and a more solid feel. I think these buttons should be made of metal; it would be the least they could do, at least on the flagship models.

I’m not a big fan of the pads either, which have no travel or clic. Even though they do the job and respond well, the feel doesn’t feel like you’re actually pushing the pad. The pads on my Traktor Z2 are 10,000 times more pleasant to use.

Having tried an FLX 10, I can tell you that the pads aren’t any better than those on the Primes.

Regarding the jog wheel, I find it pleasant to use on the Primes. I only set the sensitivity to the minimum in the settings on the Prime 2 to get the feel I like and gain precision, because I find the default sensitivity too high. But at the minimum setting, it’s perfect.

5 - For me, despite the minor flaws in point number 4, Denon is far superior to any Pioneer system.

To cite just one basic feature, Denon’s looping system is incredibly faster, smoother, and more intuitive, thanks to their push encoder, than Pioneer’s archaic loop in/loop out system inherited from the CDJ 500.

The push encoder has completely changed the way I work, with on-the-fly loops as precise and fast as ever. And I hate it when I have to mix on Pioneer equipment just for that, because I love playing with loops now.

But I could cite many other examples where Denon is superior (real-time grid analysis, touch FX, pitch fader feel, etc.).

9 Likes
5

Actually, that’s not the point in my case.

All my tracks are perfectly prepared – straight BPM, no tempo drift, perfect beatgrids and cue points. There’s never a need to “nudge” the tempo to correct an imperfect grid, because there are no imperfections in my files.

On Pioneer (even entry-level like XDJ-RR), you can touch the jog for a small manual adjustment and the full SYNC – BPM + beatgrid – stays engaged. The system immediately re-aligns and continues in sync without turning it off.

On Denon, the moment you touch the jog, SYNC drops to BPM-only mode and disengages grid alignment, forcing you to re-activate it manually. In a live set, that’s impractical and unnecessary – especially when the beatgrids are already perfect.

I understand the logic for imperfect files… but when the files are flawless, this behaviour is not only unnecessary, it’s a clear step backwards compared to Pioneer’s approach, making the workflow slower and riskier for no good reason.

1 Like
6

The best thing you can do is return the Prime 4+ and purchase an XDJ-RR then, its an easy decision.

10 Likes
7

If so, then why do you need to touch the jog wheel and make “small manual adjustments”?

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

8 Likes
8

Maybe all your grids are perfectly adjusted to the millisecond for each of your tracks in your collection because you love spending your time tweaking them.

But many DJs (myself included) don’t really care about having perfectly perfect grids and prefer to manually adjust the timing live. Sometimes it’s just to avoid a phasing effect on tracks with overly similar rhythms. Or sometimes a slight offset brings out the kick, which can cancel each other out if they’re too perfectly synchronized.

At your level, why not completely remove the jog wheel too, since it’s useless?

You should keep in mind that these devices are designed to adapt to a wide variety of use cases and varied workflows.

And people like me who hate spending time on the computer fine-tuning beat grids are just happy to be able to sometimes just use sync for a quick adjustment, but to be able to fine-tune manually without having to disengage sync first, which would prevent me from doing so.

I remain convinced that the best thing to do is to be careful with your movements and avoid accidentally touching the jog dial, if this is your problem and you’re clumsy. Like every DJ in the world has always done since the vinyl era.

3 Likes
9

It reads like they are saying they want a ‘fail safe’ so they can allow themselves to be distracted by other things and not have to concentrate on being a DJ.

This is a translated passage from their previous thread.

1 Like
10

I use the jog wheel to set cue points on the fly so I can create different DJ sets every time.

This is not meant to diminish Denon – it’s simply my workflow, and with the Prime 4+ it’s not possible to do it the same way.

I can praise Denon for the build quality and the software, but it doesn’t suit my method of working.

Returning the Prime 4+ means selling it for much less than I paid – realistically €800–€1000 – which is a big drop in commercial value.

It would be great if Denon could offer the same SYNC behaviour as Pioneer in this scenario. That’s all. It’s just a shame, because otherwise it’s a solid product.

11

Turning Vinyl mode off will disable the top platter so you can only ever ‘nudge’ the track and not scratch it. You should be able to nudge it back pretty quickly and nobody will notice.

if Pioneer gear doesnt disable the grid, id be interested to understand the workflow behind making an adjustment if it goes out of line, because it sounds unintuitive if you cant just nudge the platter to correct it.

3 Likes
12

In my case, there’s no need to “correct” the beatgrid – all my tracks are perfectly prepared, with straight BPM and accurate grids.

On Pioneer gear, I can still nudge the jog for a micro adjustment if I want, but the full sync (BPM + grid) remains active and the track stays locked in.

That’s the difference: on Denon, touching the jog immediately drops SYNC to BPM-only mode, so you lose grid lock and have to re-enable it.

For a workflow where I set live cue points and build different sets every time, that behaviour makes the process slower and riskier.

It’s not about one brand being “wrong”, but about the way the system reacts – and for my workflow, Pioneer’s approach is simply more efficient.

13

This doesnt work, because it will simply re-snap to the grid and go out of line again, making your ‘micro adjustment’ pointless. By nudging the platter you dont want the track to remaing ‘locked in’ because you’re adjusting it.

Having just read the manual for the XDJ-RR, i beg to differ, this is not a more efficient workflow than nudging the platter.

“Depending on the track’s beat information, the sound may not be synchronized in the SYNC state after the [SYNC/INST.DOUBLES] button is pressed. If this happens, the sound can be re-synchronized by pressing the [SYNC/INST.DOUBLES] button to turn SYNC off then back on”

2 Likes
14

I understand your point – if you’re correcting an imperfect beatgrid, you wouldn’t want it to immediately snap back into grid lock.

But in my case, the beatgrids are already 100% accurate and BPM is straight. I’m not “fixing” anything – I’m setting cue points live and sometimes making tiny timing adjustments for creative transitions.

On Pioneer, I can do this without losing the full SYNC lock, which means I don’t have to re-activate SYNC every time. On Denon, the moment I touch the jog, SYNC drops to BPM-only and I lose that lock, which slows down my workflow unnecessarily.

For my use case, keeping the track locked after a micro adjustment is not pointless – it’s exactly what I need to keep my sets smooth and spontaneous.

15

You should raise it as a feature request and allow people to vote on it, that way it may or may not be looked at, although im fairly sure most are happy with this implementation, but i wont speak for them.

2 Likes
16

I really want to stay with Denon – I like many aspects of the hardware and software – but I can’t work the way I want to on it, while I can on every Pioneer model I’ve used.

My workflow often involves beatmatching tracks from the refrain/chorus, and I’ve seen that the crowd responds incredibly well to this method. To make it work live, you have to be fast and very precise, and for me, touching the jog is a fundamental part of that process.

On Pioneer, the jog combined with its SYNC behaviour allows me to do this smoothly and without breaking the flow. I’ve tried following some of the suggestions here, and even turning off Vinyl mode, it’s still not the same as Pioneer’s SYNC implementation.

1 Like
17

Well nothing is going to be changed based on you making this thread, so if you cant work with the unit, its best to return it and buy something that does work.

Just as an FYI, this is taken from the ‘using my XDJ-AZ’ part of the Alphatheta website.

“What does it mean when the SYNC button is blinking? When the SYNC button is lit, both the beat position and BPM of the track are synchronized. When the LED is blinking, only BPM is synchronized and the beat position isn’t synchronized.

If you use pitch bend on a deck that isn’t the MASTER, the button will switch from lit to blinking. To switch back to lit (start syncing beat positions), press the SYNC button twice to turn off and turn on Sync again.”

This means that the XDJ-AZ seems to work in exactly the same way as the Prime 4+ does when you bend the pitch.

6 Likes
18

This is exactly the same behavior we have and it is the most logical one in the entire industry.

4 Likes
19

I did wonder, returning the Prime 4 to buy an AZ would be an expensive disappointment if that was the main reason to do it.

4 Likes
20

The thing is that a manufacturer must choose 1 way of behavior, and it must cater to a majority of the users. Most users sooner or later have a need to nudge the tempo, therefore disabling beat or bar sync, resolving to tempo sync. Especially when you play multiple genres where not everything is the same feelingless constant tempo it is today…

Honestly, I can’t remember when I “accidentally” pushed the jog wheel… Oh yes, I can, back in the day with turntables, where you were instantly punished with a skating needle sound. Maybe that stuck with my, so I am still careful about inadvertently touching my platters :wink:

2 Likes