I’m not keen on the deck 3 / 4 thing at all - I have 3 SC5000’s because the dual layer thing confused me too much in the heat of battle, as it were. for me, it has to be a standalone device.
I do like the idea of MrWilks pricing, but I have to say I think it unrealistic, if I am honest. Just my 0.02’s worth.
Is the Toraiz Squid a sampler? I thought it more a sequencer.
Why would Akai want to jump into bed, so to speak, with a competitor? I cant see how they would be even slightly interested in that option.
The deck 3/4 layer thing is subjective and would work exactly how it does now. If it’s a free upgrade that comes further down the line then they just made the players desirable once again. Product cycles like this have about a 3-4 year life cycle. They don’t go through too many iterations due to familiarity in the DJ booth and price paid from the club owners (it’s hard enough to get them to upgrade once every few years!).
I think adding value to an existing product in their booths already would be ana amazing boon for Denon DJ and this would be a good way of doing it. I also have a Traktor S8 and they way they did it on there was amazing.
I think Akai Pro would be the best option… as they are sister brands working under the same ownership. It is possible to lean on them for the technical expertise while relying on Denon DJ for the styling and interface. Having their brand on it “powered by Akai Pro” reinforces you’re getting the quality of another brand within. For marketing its invaluable.
Oopsy. I meant to write sequencer there and not sampler. I was in my own world when typing Haha.
Dont you think that adding performance sampler to the 5000 will just make things uber complicated? There’s a lot going on there at the moment as it is. I completely agree that adding features for free is great, but would that be at the expense of functionality and ease of use? For my thick head, it has to be standalone.
Sadly, it’s all academic, because we have no idea if Denon are even slightly interested in producing such a device. It’s a shame they cant give any indication, so that if they are not, we can look elsewhere.
I totally think stand alone is the way forward but I think a free “lite” version would be a cracking bonus for existing users. Traktor made it super simple and is as easy as switching layers. The decks are dual layered as they are so to turn the (unused for some) secondary decks into Sample players/sequencers would be great. @serato turned the sample deck into sequences for Roland 808/605/202 users and it could work exactly the same. Keep your existing decks on the screen (decks 1&2) and have one press to fire off samples (just how Serato DJ works now).
Who knows? As you say, it’s all academic and we will just have to see what they have planned. As streaming is now added I suppose there is a possibility there is another secret project on the way and I guess this could be a million miles away from where they are. They do keep it to themselves so it’s just a wait and see. Maybe one day we’ll be referring to this thread and seeing just how far (or close) we came!
Keep in mind that the Squid is just an overpriced sequencer. It has no actual audio processing capability. Hence the low price point (compared to Pioneer, not the overall sequencer market).
Ive owned both the Toraiz SP1 and the Akai MPC Live. Both have the same amount of menu diving and a super similar workflow for live sampling.
I think what you are looking for is something that is strictly a clock based sampler, which could be built and sold for around the $3-400 range easily.
Just wanted to resurrect this subject. I too would love for Denon/Akai to combine their forces to create a stand alone performance sampler dedicated for Denon DJ use! The Akai samplers mentioned above are too complex/overkill for DJ performance. And in another request thread, some users want sampler playback to be implemented with firmware in the players. I would much prefer a separate sampler that has dedicated buttons, faders/knobs for volume control, filters, more delicious Akai pads, dedicated physical feedback so that there is less time menu diving in live performances. The ability to play multiple samples at once, (yes constructing a bare bones track) but doing so without needing to sift through pages of menu folder, constant touch screen cues. Physical, physical!
A sampler that is INTUITIVE in a form factor with dimensions to compliment a standard DJ booth equipped w/ 2 players and mixer. The DJS-1000 is too large and although it can be used live, designed more for in depth prep-production work. The sampler should be able to sample more than 90 seconds and playback as many as 32 bars (I recall the DJS-1000 originally limited to 8 bar playback). Of course it should have necessary built in memory and storage ports/slots to expand playback and sampling. The products on market that exist currently I feel are more or less for producing tracks and the $1000+ prices reflect that.
The Denon sampler should be fun to use, ready to play out-of-the-box, inspiring to experiment with in live performances on the fly, and complimentary with the Denon DJ media players/mixer.
That definitely looks fun to use and is small enough with wide pads for my chubby digits.
But really, Denon DJ would do the DJ community a big if they had a simpler device than whats available. Possibly could be the tool to get other DJs to jump ship by displaying a dedication to (additional) live DJ performance play. Obviously, Pioneer has been creating devices in an attempt to bridge that production-performance gap, but still misses the mark for DJ use imho.
I’ve been looking at the Roland SP 404 (talk about designed to take a beating) and am in disbelief that a similar device has not been reproduced with updated modern tech and compatibility.
I think the Denon sampler should be part of the Prime series, and should therefore have a premier product feel and look about it. Anything less does not deserve the Prime title. The DC5000’s and X1800’s are class leaders - any other Prime product should do the same thing.
That’s an absolute Plus one from me, really could do with a native solution,
It would also be good to catch any current loops to play in a sampler as well as manual recording of sample loops.
And to save sample banks / lists of sample banks, and also if you were to drop a list into a current song playlist it would load up the sample bank automatically corresponding to the Previous song in your playlist / as you load that song it loads the sample bank into the sampler as a package, their is a little more to the way this could be done as one of the feature links between Denon Prime players and the requested sampler
But yes Plus one for a hardware sampler or a (paid upgrade) to the deck B on the Prime players is also another nice option to integrate a sampling method like that. even if its just linked to your current loops, would love that, but some sort of integration with both ideas and the Prime players would be best, that way everyone can afford some sort of sampling method, hardware sampler great but doubt I could afford an addition like that as with many others, so song loops to deck B system this could then be integrated with hardware in a more advanced way.
Been searching for many months online for a stand-alone sampler that would compliment the SC5000 in regards to DJ performance/functionality. Haven’t seen any that fit my wants and needs.
As mentioned previously, most current samplers are overkill for the DJ booth, designed more for DAWless production use rather than the simple DJ samplers of yesteryear. I imagine several features that would make an ideal Prime sampler:
Form factor - should be small enough to fit in a DJ booth w/ mixer and turntables, but still have large finger pads (8 usually is the magic number). Ability to work standalone with batteries for loading/prepping samples on the road, maybe in combination via USB with an ipad (or your phone) accessing samples online before your DJ gig!
(Fun)ctionality - should have RGB performance based robust pads for finger drumming/triggering samples. Intuitive physical features w/ a combination of buttons, rotaries, pitch strip, (maybe even a mini joystick controller for example that allows 3 dimensional response!) that lets the user press, twist, turn, dial, flick, or a combination for triggering additional (user based preference assignments perhaps) effects! The fun part is the physical touch that removes the time consuming menu diving that most producer based samplers require. Yes, there should be a screen to create profiles/ user preferences, view sample IDs, prepare sample banks and add additional firmware, etc., But, the majority of functionality should be easily accessible via hardware for live performance with less interruption from deep menu searches making this device fun to use!
Link or midi clock ability. Should be able to easily sync with the bpm of players. Makes for easy live sampling, looping, etc.,
3b. Tap out BPM trigger! - for times when doing improv sets with a live band. Or when the players’/mixer’s BPM is inaccurate.
Limited efx - perhaps a filter, pitch slider, and/or echo. Again, keeping it simple is best. One method to have multiple efx, is to assign to a rotary bank in user preferences for example. Or, using the common ‘Shift’ + method
Memory bank and add on storage capability - this allows for larger samples times/banks.
Price - $300 - $600 I won’t pretend to know the market, but as seeing that this product would not be the monster song producer that other sampler models advertise as ($700+), it could benefit from affordability. Additionally, if priced right, and especially designed right, this could be the standard of (stand alone) DJ samplers not currently available inserting Denon’s name among DJ booths everywhere, even where competing brands exist!
I will again stress the fun part of functionality. A sampler can be an instrument in the DJ’s arsenal. As with your DJ gig playlists, of course there will be required prep time for certain style of performances, whether solo or with an artist/band. But it’s primary usage should be designed as such for for live intuitive instant gratification!
Imagine you are the resident DJ and you will be performing with a guest featured vocalist or band with just (1) SC5000/m, a mixer, and your sampler. Being able to trigger preloaded samples while the backing track is playing on layer A of your SC5000, live scratching on layer B, then finger drumming an outro or even scale playing a melody! Even the potential to sample vocals on the spot would be creative fun. I know most, if not all these abilities already exists for some of the larger stand alone samplers. But again, they are not designed with live DJing in mind, and their prices and complexities reflect that.
I use a Pioneer RMX 500 for my external efx, and this device implements large rubber knobs that can be turned from left to right (increasing effect intensity) AND pushed in simultaneously for and additional effect! It even features a tap button for bpm which has definitely helped many times over the years. It has other fun features, but I’m not trying to sell a competing brand, but rather the idea that its design has made it fun to use over the years (especially compared to its larger sibling the RMX 1000). This is how imagine a DJ style sampler should feel, especially a Prime series that has removed the laptop screens and allowed us to connect more toward our players in new creative ways. The list of features aren’t meant to be exhaustive, just what I could think of immediately. Sorry for the wordiness, but I’m a little passionate about this imaginary Prime device! The end.
(For now.)
Let me share my thoughts about how I would like it to be done.
SD card/USB drive to store and read loops and one shot samples.
16 pads with RGB color coding - standard now days on any sampling device (Maschine, Akai, SDJ1000, etc…)
with select button for
Send/Return loop connectivity.
Denon Dj Link full support (bpm, sync and file share)
Midi in/out/thru
Midi mode for optional software control.
USB to PC connection for optional work with DAW.
Format should be compact (good example of Kontrol F1 and maschine micro to inspire from)
Intuitive touch screen (with 2 fx parameters or double fx to be used via on screen XY pad - kaoss pad style)
Workflow:
In conjunction with Denon Dj LINK the sampler should be able to read the loops from all decks and by pressing “CAPTURE” button and hitting a pad, that loop would be coppied and stored under this pad. This could open a lot new creativity options for live remixing.
By holding CAPTURE button it could give us a possibility to select on screen the capture source (decks 1-4, send/return, other input).
Live recording should be also selected that way.
Loops should be stored on the drive that is attached to the sampler or would let You chose the drive by link.
Pitch and length of the samples should be editable (starting and ending points of the loop).
Please check the workflow of Traktor Remix Decks, as this way of sampling is very fast, intuitive and easy to work with in the dj booth.
I definitely agree that this sampler should have Send/Return & MIDI for working with other audio devices. I think inclusion, not just being compatible with Denon DJ media players & turntables is a must for wider adaption, such that its price and unique DJ centric features could be an attractive segue toward Prime’s hardware ecosystem.
You nailed the idea regarding ‘Workflow.’ This is vital to live performances, intuitive, easy to use, allowing DJs to play the instrument, remix, not spend time fussing with an over complicated menu. As well, workflow when preparing samples should also be breezy. Who knows, perhaps managing samples could eventually be seamlessly implemented with Engine Prime. Even seeing Engine Prime on an ipad/ tablet of your choice. It’s about to be 2020 and I’d like to envision preparing samples on the way to my gig with my sampler, practicing a finger drum routine in the vehicle (driverless, naturally), listening through headphones. Or using a tablet with EP’s sample software and wirelessly dump the prepped folders to the sampler and away we go! I jest slightly, but these are all ideas that don’t seem too far fetched given Denon’s recent innovations.
under Laidback Lukes blanket in Amsterdam.
Lanch date Nov 5 -stay tuned.