X1850 sound is ducking and gets quiet

Hey Denon Community :slight_smile:

I own an x1850 mixer as well as two Sc6000’s. They’ve been wonderful except a couple of days ago it started behaving strangely. At first I thought it was Serato and then tried playing music off my usb and SD card and the problem was the exact same. The problem is this: The music seems to “duck” and get very quiet at times…then jumps back to normal volume…and then ducks again. Going in and out, almost as if there’s some kind of limiter on it. Another problem is if I cut the level knob off on any channel it almost has a slow fade out instead of cutting out completely. Besides that’s everything else seems to work completely fine. I’ve tried restarting and I’m positive there are no effects on. Any help is appreciated :slight_smile:

Thank you!

I noticed that with analog turntables as well. And i believe its regarding too high input volume on the channel even when i switched the internal limiter to off.

There is also a main effects limiter that is toggleable, and possibly one or two other limiter stages that Reese has referred to in the path that are not toggleable. Personally, I don’t think limiters are necessary or even really a good idea. I can’t say with certainty this is your issue, though.

I have to ask: in what situation do you need to quickly put the level knob to min and you need the audio to follow quickly? Usually you use the linefader or ch input switches (miss those from vintage mixer) to do quick cuts of the audio signal.

I can only assume Denon did it to prevent accidental quick overdrive of input/output levels since the knobs are so light to move and unless it takes forever for audio to match the knob position it should not be a problem for you

The x1850 can put out a higher , stronger signal than some other devices.

Could it be that the speakers or amps that you’re feeding the X1850 output into is doing the ducking?

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Def. not in my case - i can hear that “ducking” on the master cue. I mean there simply must be solution for it since we`re not talking about some 100 Euro gear.

Of course i could simply try to keep the gains as low as possible - but it happens also to me when playing vinyl and having some really short peak hits cause of natural vinyl crackles. I have no effects on when it happen.

I`m def. not happy with this!

BTW: @Reticuli Thanks for that smart topic reminder :wink:

bump - Denon Support? Anyone?

If the community can’t help you, then DenonDJ support can be found here: Support : Denon DJ

I have the same issue as you guys. Every pop or click in the vinyl seems to trigger a limiter effect and drop the volume, before it stabilises again. I ran a quick experiment and dropped the channel gain right down but ramped up the booth volume and this seemed to cure it. However, when I did the opposite (turned up the channel gain, turned down the booth volume) the problem was significant. I think Ciacomix is correct. It’s to do with the input volume. I just don’t understand why it happens when the limiters are switched off. Denon support, where are you for heavens’ sake? Please stop ignoring people’s concerns. This is the second serious issue i’ve had with this mixer since I bought it 12 months ago and i’m starting to consider selling the thing, buying and Allen & Heath, and then going on social media to warn people not to buy your mixers because they’re clearly not worth the money.

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The limiters we currently have control over on the mixers I believe are those for the main FX section and the outputs, not the EQ & sweep FX or any input section.

I’ve emailed Denon support some videos of the issue, after they emailed me back this week. Hopefully they might have some answers for us after they’ve watched them.

An update on this issue, from Denon:

“It appears that there is a brick wall limiter on the input of the mixer as a protection circuit. Clipping the input will distort the signal which in severe cases will damage speakers and many DJ mixers from different manufacturers now employ these protection limiters to stop that from happening but they will cause the ducking issue that you are experiencing”

Their advice was basically to turn the gains down, which I think is pretty woeful tbh. Even running the gain volume at +3 or +6db (the white bars on the volume indicator) causes the ducking issue, which any half-decent mixer should be able to tolerate (the DJM900 does, for definite).

I’ve requested an update on how to disable this limiter (or at the very least ease it up), but so far they haven’t responded. If they fail to remedy the problem, i’m selling the mixer and buying an Allen & Heath, because this simply isn’t good enough for a high-end DJ mixer of this kind.

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dang, glad you got a resopnse.

I moved on from my x1800 a while ago (xone rotary! sound is incredible) and the ducking was one of the reasons. Totally forgot about it until this thread — it’s really annoying and especially annoying because it’s not mentioned in the manual :confused: I used to get it all the time on the input to my 1200s.

Yup, great that we have this info finally. Guess Denon mixers are not to be recommended to users of real vinyl.

This just shows how bad it was the idea to start from scratch when inMusic bought the DenonDJ brand from D&M holdings.

You’re welcome guys. I’m still chatting to Denon, but I’ll update you all as/when I know more about the issue. Stay tuned.

Are they attempting to explain the use of limiters on sound equipment and justifying why they have non-bypass-able limiters on a stage of their mixer where there shouldn’t even be bypass-able limiters at all?

“It appears…” Hah hah. You know what it appears like? It appears like they offshored the design of this mixer and they have little idea how it actually works, let alone rational justifications for its design.

Damage speakers? Maybe tweeters, and that’s usually only from amp output stages if they lack limiters where you can go 4X the amp’s rated maximum power in ultrasonic harmonics otherwise. Cheap class D PWM amps without limiters are even more of a risk if they lack certain electrical components. We’re definitely not talking about running a rock band through a high headroom analog mixer, either.

Limiters on digital DJ mixers, even when they’re on the output stage of it, are good for two things: 1) making noobs sound slightly better when they don’t know what they’re doing, especially when recording or streaming, and 2) putting entire speaker assemblies (tweeters, mid woofers, and bass woofers) at risk through excessive RMS, which a limiter does nothing to prevent being ratcheted up, and in fact tends to encourage.

If there’s an added limiter built into the input stage of a digital DJ mixer, either someone screwed up and put it there where it didn’t belong, and/or someone screwed up the input stage design itself.

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Right guys, I have news from Denon and unfortunately it isn’t good. See below:

“The +10 suggestion was purely hypothetical as a way of explaining the situation. We have not been given any information on the specific settings employed with the limiter. We have been advised however that these limiters are not able to be deactivated and are inherent in the design of the mixer.”

So there it is. Whoever they employed to build the mixer (and it doesn’t sound like they actually know) took it upon themselves to fit a limiter at the input stage that’s hard-wired into the device and cannot be turned off.

Frankly, this is absolutely unforgivable for a bit of kit that costs so much and boasts about how good it is a professional DJ mixer. I doubt i’ll be keeping mine, and I certainly won’t be buying anything from Denon ever again. If they’re happy leaving out crucial bits of information like this in the hope that nobody would ever find out (or even worse, they don’t know anything about the product they’re selling), then i’ll take my money to a company that does, like Allen & Heath.

I’m sorry the update wasn’t more positive, but i’ve done my best to get to the bottom of a problem that I know a lot of you have been very frustrated with, same as I have.

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What are you feeding into it , signal wise ?

2 x Technics 1210s, on channels 1 & 4 through the phono inputs. Audio volume is usually bouncing around the +3 to +6db level (3 white bars maximum), exactly the same levels as the digital inputs from Traktor (on USB inputs 2 & 3). No issue with ducking from the digital, but that’s obviously due to the fact there’s no volume spikes from pops & crackles. I ran the exact same setup through a DJM900 with absolutely no issues whatsoever.

What is stopping you from running your levels the hardcore school way: only occassionally lighting up the first white led? Still have the same problem then?