It’s the same out of master or booth. I don’t rely on headphones for monitoring frequency perfect audio. When tested against the original files on the same sets of monitors, there is a noticeable muddiness in the 6-12khz range and what sounds like a slow roll off above 16khz.
When plugging the players into the djm900nxs2, 900nexus, 800, 900srt, and come db2, the audio sounds clear. This leads me to believe the issue is with the mixer and not the players. I still haven’t fully tested an 1850 as I went back to djm.
Gemini? The once so solid company which became utterly trash after the 90s with legendary releases aka ‘CDJ’-203 and other embarrasing copycat fails? Ugh, please not.
Keep Engine to the good quality Denon hardware, if you really want to spread it, maybe add 1-2 mid/high tier manufactors (Stanton?) to the train, but before spoiling the ecosystem’s reputation with inferior third-party hardware, better keep it exclusive and tweak it to maximum stability and performance. We have three AIO-stations, four decks, two mixers and the MXC8000 as part of the Engine family. Add the upcoming mysterious slave deck, maybe also a smaller standalone deck á la SC4000 and a 2ch-mixer for <600$ each in future, then every price region and scenario would be covered.
The Playlist is not the issue as such. The beatgrids and cue points creates the work.
Actually if you don’t use those and truely doing all by ear as in the good old days, than I agree. I wouldn’t bother just to import the Playlists.
If you rely on betagrids and cues, you have to use 3rd party apps to transfer those (depending where do you start and where do you want to go to)
My library management for example is rekordbox (still got my XDJ-1000MK1). My music is mainly from the 80ies and 90ies. Rekordbox does the dynamic BPM analysis very well. Analysis in Engine Prime is mostly off. I know they made improvements but they are not there yet after meanwhile how many years? With the new Beta this went into the right direction but not with the detection but with importing the grids and cues from rekordbox, which btw. works pretty ok. Instead of improving the own detection, they rely on others to do the job and benefit by just importing it.
Before you slay me on that statement. I am not saying this is bad - it might be a smart move as it is probably the only way to migrate exsiting Pioneer customers to Denon. No surprise that Pioneer DJ is not offering an import of an Engine DB into rekordbox at this time and removed XML creation from rekordbox6 to make it even harder for others to use rekordbox for library management and simply use it on other platforms. And I can understand that some sort of.
There had been a lot of noise about the removal of the XML export which was showing how many people using rekordbox but not to use it with PioneerDJ equipment.
We will see how this goes on - definitely an interesting one…
I think we all agree that an open format for a library would be good to use it with all type of software but this will not happen anytime soon - let’s face that.
There’s definitely roll-off on the players themselves with SPDIF to digital mixers I have or directly into a Tascam interface, like it’s closer to 32khz instead of 96khz. Nonlinear distortion harmonics, IMD, and roll-off show up in RMAA on the players. Perhaps you were hearing additional mud and other issues the X1800 was adding to that, though, that’s sort of pushing it past a threshold of audibility for you.
What sample rate did you have the X1800 set at?
It defaults to 48khz, but seemed to have the worse high-frequency issues at 96khz, at least previously, and, granted, not additional roll-off. The midrange didn’t seem to change much with sample rate changes, though. And like I said, InMusic says the DSP maths were tweaked or something in the latest firmware. Have you been able to try it yet or did you get rid of the X1800?
Yeah, I previously described it as grainy, lacking nuance, constrained, like the sound was being pushed through a tiny hole, and as if the volume needed to be turned up excessively-loud to get the same information to my brain compared to other mixers. I think they may have indeed improved the overall processing sound quality a little in the latest firmware and possibly also 96khz mode specifically. However, I can’t prove on my end that InMusic’s claim of tweaking the X1800 DSP code has resulted in a measurable or audible improvement, and sometimes I’m not even sure myself.
The only thing I’m certain about on the X1800’s seeming improvement is that when doing a lot of headphone mixing during COVID-19 I don’t seem to have to turn it up uncomfortably-loud like I previously had to, but it could just be me getting accustomed to the same old sound it’s had the whole time… or maybe me matching the right headphones to it better. I don’t blame anyone for not putting up with it, but I don’t believe its ADC, SPDIF ins/outs, or line-level analog outs are weak links. In other words, going analog in or using an external DAC doesn’t seem to fix it. Which DJM did you move over to?
In production? MP2015. And that’s strangely-enough with the fact it is always doing SRC and it has channel isos always in the path that mutilate test waveforms. It does use dedicated TI chips designed just to do SRC, and the channel isos are also not the common style of 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley but some novel approach. Still, the X1800 has sample rate selection and isos aren’t always in the signal path, so, at least on paper, the Prime mixers have a lot going for them in terms of measurable accuracy. Maybe I’m biased towards isolators? The MP2015 is the hardest mixer for me to hear in the SPDIF path, though, with maybe it only slightly boosting fine transient details, a sense of contrasts, and the blackness of backgrounds. If it had sample rate selection, I wouldn’t be surprised if I’d be unable to hear it in the path at all when matched to the input rate.
Very interesting.
So MP2015 is the only digital mixer today that is able to be considered as top of the line sounding?
What You would say bout Allen, Formula sound, Model 1?
I am curious what non rotary dj mixer could be considered as best sounding as well.
assuming that “top of the line” is measured by accuracy. in contrast one could also say that one particular mixer is not totally accurate but has a certain charm which makes it sound nicer.
No. He just asked for one and one in production, and so I really restrained myself.
There are quite a few good digital mixers out there, including with faders. I find the people who tend to diss all digital mixers are the ones who think the DJM-500 & 600 were digital mixers, who are judging all digital mixers by the analog outputs on the DJM-800 after its been on for like 5hrs and the power supply is getting hot, or don’t know how to use the meters on any of them.
As for analog mixers, the best sound you can get on one is just a passive mix box with one channel volume all the way up where it’s technically just an interconnect cable, and there’s not a whole lot you can do on such a mixer. Every other feature is likely to degrade the signal more than even a cheap digital mixer is likely to. To get an analog mixer to rival something like a high-end digital mixer requires either thousands of dollars, way more attention to quality control than most boutique stuff is actually getting, and/or you have to basically have nothing on the mixer but volume control. Isonoe has apparently gotten some good results, but they literally make the Iso420 at a place that builds precision test and lab equipment, and you pay for it. If you’re using all vinyl and can afford it, then by all means don’t let me talk you out of it. Looks gorgeous.
I’ve also heard nothing but good things about the last few generations of Formula Sound and Mastersounds, but I haven’t used any of it and doubt it sounds dramatically better than an old Urei rotary or Biamp/Advantage fader mixer. I don’t hate analog mixers, but even with a mint UK Xone 62 with the tone controls bypassed, as lush and pleasant as it sounds, if you switch it out to a high-end digital mixer, it’s like, goodness, a veil gets lifted and everything gets more dynamic and clean. Then there’s the fact many big sound systems now have digital processing going on – even Funktion One now. Might as well just use a digital mixer and pipe the SPDIF to your processors.
I take full responsibility for this completely logical and related subject tangent.
With links that tentative, you should be on internet radio lol, I spose it just goes to show how bloody dull the cdj3000 is, when conversations about it distil into mixer reminiscing
Yeah. The MP2015 is closer to the original sound of the SPDIF than the X1700 set at 96khz is when both are fed an old Pioneer CDJ SPDIF at 44.1khz and both are doing upsampling, but the X1700 moves me emotionally probably more… to the point I’ll just sit there and listen to it to the detriment of the DJing. The X1700 set to the same input rate is a better presentation of the source, but maybe not as fun.
I think the DJM-900NXS2 is a pleasant-sounding mixer, if a little bloated in the low-end still like the older models or perhaps a little too much finesse in the top-end compared to their older models people (possibly unfairly) called alternatively crunchy or tinny at times.
The DB4 has a bit of aliasing echo going on all the time, but it’s otherwise freakishly neutral and unhyped sounding, and its master outs are really really nice – maybe the best master out section on any digital mixer. I can’t imagine someone feeling a need for a different external DAC when using it, like, you know, you can certainly see a benefit for with a DJM-800. I’d love an external DAC just made out of that master out section. The master out section is so good I can almost look past the split cue being buried in the menu.
Anyway, back to the X1800… maybe it measures too accurate in some ways and could that actually be contributing to its ‘dryness’? Possible. I don’t have thorough-enough testing abilities to rule out it having any measurable issues in the old or newest firmwares.
DjTechTools finally posted their attempt at a review of the SC6009’s. Apparently they failed to notice Laid-back Luke has used them on your and never put in the work to post an updated video. I wish they would have just waited a couple weeks to do a proper review.
