I’m surprised this didn’t show up on the inMusic response actually. Jack probably forgot about it.
2 Likes
Wonder if it’s been redacted so as not to sway the decision because they reversed it.
1 Like
Don’t dream, the aim of companies in this industry, as in many others, is to create an ecosystem and lock users into it to maximize their retention. Exactly on the Apple model. The aim of companies is not to talk to each other, or to create a common standard to make life easier for users, but to make as much profit as possible. InMusic doesn’t do things differently, they’re just obliged as a challenger to open up their ecosystem a little more to attract users of the leading brand. But if InMusic were leader instead of pioneer, they’d probably act the same way. In fact, Inmusic has not decided to use Open Dj database to set up their database.
1 Like
Unfair on Apple in my opinion. They allow Windows to be loaded onto their machines (pre ARM) and even provided a free program to do it. They also incorporate MS Office into Mac OS and allow some of their own programs to work on Windows.
Pioneer and other DJ companies behaviour is far worse than that.
Apple wouldn’t be here without Microsoft. Microsoft helped Steve Jobs to get Apple financially back on track after his return. Part of that deal was to have Microsoft develop Office for MacOS. So, that wasn’t Apple’s choice; it was Microsoft’s demand.
Apple did support bootcamp to run Windows, yes.
1 Like
Apple has a significant market share, but is not the leader in the world of computers. Apple is therefore a challenger, and like Denon they are obliged to open up their ecosystem a little to attract people from the PC/windows world… But once attracted, the aim is to convert them to the use of MacOS… Just as Inmusic attracts rekordbox DJs with the ability to read keys but then convert them to Engine users. Given Apple’s mentality and commercial policy, if they were the leader and sold more Macs than Windows PCs worldwide, they’d be doing exactly what pioneer is doing as the leader of their industry. Locking everything that’s lockable to keep their users in their ecosystem. Already as a challenger, Apple isn’t known for being a great defender of open and free systems.
I disagree with your take entirely.
It’s your right my dear stu
But you can’t say that Apple is a model for the use of open formats. As soon as they can do something proprietary rather than using a standard or norm that everyone uses, they do it. Remember the obligation to go through iTunes to use their iPod player, therefore to create an account apple.
While all mp3 players compete, we could simply drag and drop our tracks directly into the player. Same for the use of non-standard connectors for phone chargers. All manufacturers used Mini/micro USB as a universal standard and Apple insisted on using their proprietary lightening port because they kept royalties on this specific connector. It was only because the European Commission imposed the use of USB-C as a standard for all future phones that Apple was finally forced to abandon their proprietary connector.
Apple’s mentality and business practices are not that far removed from Pioneer’s in the DJ industry.
The only difference is that in the computer industry it’s Apple against the rest of the world because they are the only ones to have their own OS, while in the High End brand DJ industry there are only Pioneer and Denon who make sufficiently professional DJ players and Pioneer is the Leader.
Besides, if you think about it carefully, EngineOS is not a free and open OS either, although it is based on Linux. I mean, it’s not an OS that any DJ hardware maker could use to make a standalone or a player. The same way any smartTV maker can use AndroidTV or GoogleTV.
I’m not even sure that InMusic would agree to transfer an EngineOS operating license to a third-party manufacturer that is not part of the Inmusic group, like Reloop for example.
While ultimately InMusic would have every interest in doing this like Google does for smart TVs. In no time, Engine OS would become the majority ahead of Rekordbox and literally become a true standard.
You’re basing your whole argument on iOS devices alone though, and even then some of it is just opinion. As i understand it, the reason for Apple adopting the lightning port was down to speed (clue is in the name) and connection flexibility. USB at the time wasn’t at a standard anywhere near fast enough to move data at the speed Apple were aiming for, nor did it allow for 2 sided connection (Which with the advent of USB-C has solved both of those issues) . Also lets not pretend the USB format is all rosy and wonderful, its an absolute mess that is about as far from standardised as it could be, look at all the different connections and all the differing standards within those connections.
As far as the MP3 thing goes, sales of iPods in comparison to rival brands MP3 players would suggest the market didn’t feel hampered by this.
For the computer OS, WIndows and Mac OS are largely similar, there isn’t much difference between them regarding features and the ability to carry out tasks… which doesn’t match this view of ‘Apple’ the company being a closed shop.
On an unrelated note, my colleague did a midi mapping for rekordbox on the SC LIVE 4 … sadly no screen or jog dial functionality. Pitch faders mapped to Channel 3 & 4 faders.
What would make my day, if the Serato takeover is allowed to go through, with a ruling that forces all these companies to start opening their hardware and software up to each others devices.
Like a ‘yeah you can buy it, but you’re not carrying on kicking this can down the road’
As already mentioned that it’s not possible. Any mapping without jogwheel control is useless, I have no idea why did you even try doing that when it’s well know what will be the result.
Thought I would get my team to try it irrespective. IF you are aware, is there a more successful mapping for TRAKTOR with the Denon DJ Standalones ?
Why not just use Serato, VDJ or the device in standalone? what’s the obsession with trying to force a square peg into a round hole? It seems to me like purposefully picking incompatible software to be awkward, when there are other solutions out there.
@STU-C I am trying to sell Denon DJ consoles … the push back I face is against Rekordbox and Traktor users … hence trying to chisel the square peg to fit in a round hole. I’m more than happy using pen drives where there are no issues in any environment.
…and Denon Prime series units are designed to be used standalone.
The whole raison d’etre is for operation without DJ software. Potential buyers should be people who no longer wish to DJ with computer software - not Recordbox / Traktor users.
So sell it on what it is meant to do, and if they are not happy with that, offer them alternative products that suit their needs.
If people are locked into either of those systems and unwilling to move, why are they even looking at Prime products in the first place?
Half truthfully, I’d say that Denon prime units are designed “above all” for stand-alone use. But they are also designed to drive external software on a computer. If this were not the case, there would be no computer mode.
As long as the functionality exists, it’s up to each individual to decide whether or not to use it.
If, for example, you want to use stems to add value to your services, you have no choice but to use software such as VDJ or Serato to get a convincing result. Because the stems experience on Standalone is not yet up to scratch.
But I agree that using prime units with Rekordbox or traktor doesn’t add any value compared with EngineOS.
@Gaian yes of course I am fully aware that the units can be used as controllers - but this is a secondary/bonus functionality.
If you pay attention to the wording/phrasing on Denon DJ’s product page, the page heading is “standalone DJ system”. The first text on the page says the same thing. The next part says “Smart DJ Console”. Under the big picture, it says “no laptop needed”.
The last thing mentioned is that it can “also be used” as a controller. Further down the page, the logos from Serato and VirtualDJ with the text “also compatible with” and “in addition to”.
Ergo, it’s being promoted by Denon DJ as a standalone unit first and foremost.
I wonder, is there (or has there ever been) a controller that works natively with ALL DJ software?