Record Level Too Low - How To Adjust?

Denon has recognized the issue and stated…

"Hi all, so you know the dev team is aware of this and the increased recording level will come in one of the next point releases.

Thanks J"

Hopefully, this will end the debate of “should” there be a higher recording level or recording meters. This has to be the most asked for feature under BPM fix and edit on the hardware.

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I noticed an increase in mid-high when I took the bass out. Nothing conclusive, but will test further.

I know they will come threw with a fix and more

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That sounds like a completely new issue with crackling and drop outs. I don’t recall that being mentioned before.

I think we’ve already demonstrated with actual recordings, videos, and looking at the waveforms in an editor that the recording levels appear to be fine. No one who’s made the claim otherwise bothered to provide any evidence to the contrary, though to do so is quite simple and has been described in detail. If InMusic adds some ability to increase the record levels, it will either have to be in post on the unit, or if in realtime by risking either compression or outright clipping.

Back to your obvious recording defects issue, you might want to do some test recordings to try and replicate it with predictability and then post a bug report in the P4 section.

Something is wrong i have done this and posted a picture of the recording in audacity. It does seem that Reticuli is right in regards what he is saying, well in fact i know he is, but without a video i dont believe he can identify the specifics. I dont upload videos and such but i have made a couple regarding some issues with recording etc.

I turned everything up including channel volume/gain and it was still really low. Have also experienced the flat waveforms, seems to do it at the beginning of a lot of my recordings and gets better as the recording goes on. What would usually take me one shot to record its taking me nearly 4/5 re records to ensure level consistency. However i believe this is down a lot too my change to a new machine and im not 100% sure the VU meters are giving me a full idea of whats going on which is meaning level inconsistency and a lot of mid mix gain control.

So when i plugged into the Booth outs i noticed that the booth volume does not effect the Master (Obviously) however the Master volume will increase how much the VU meter is reading. So i thought this might basically be a way of increasing record volume without increasing the volume of my monitors. But as far as i can see after recording this hasn’t made a difference to how loud it records. Which is annoying because i thought i had solved the riddle…

Sorry for the long reply…

Prime 4 Owner/User/Old-Hat-Pro: This issue is RIDICULOUS. It literally causes your trim/individual channel gain to only have an effect in a live setting. WHY do I buy this “top of the line” awesome piece of hardware, just to have your software developers screw every pooch in the pound? And your responses? STOCK. Do you copy and paste your solutions from Hallmarks website? Do you even have human beings with DJ experience WORKING ON THIS KIT? How could you have released hardware with such beastly potential with software created by the special-ed class at college? Don’t get me STARTED about Engine Prime… #FlagshipMyArse

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Don’t be so hard on yourself :man_shrugging:t2:

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A low level recording can be “pepped up” by any free sofrware straight after the recording has been made.

Some minor convenience feature doesn’t detract from this being a great bit of kit. Some minor improvements could be made but for a cheapest (considering how much it offers 4 deck mixer all in one and more) it’s damn amazing already

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Trying To recap some explanation why the low level can benefit here…

The fact that the volume is too low, isn’t directly a bad thing here. You have to know that each recording needs to have some ‘headroom’ to be sure the recording audio-signal isn’t ‘clipping’ over the 0db level…

Clipping results in distorted sound, you’ll try to avoid this (if distortion is needed you apply the effect to the audio signal in it’s clearest form for full control)

So the fact that it gives us a very low level is a good thing… meaning:

  1. If your signal is quieter than wanted, no worries, just turn the volume up (increasing volume won’t affect the quality of your audio signal)
  2. If your audio signal was too loud while recording… it probably would’ve clipped, giving a distorted signal.

Bottom line: It’s a good thing the levels are lower, pure for the audio quality reasons!

This all being said… There are ways you can adjust the audio level of your audio clips. By “NORMALIZING”.

There are 2 free software apps that you can use to “NORMALIZE” the audio clip. (meaning, it will take the loudest audio peak/signal of your audio clip (or selection in that clip), and increases the overal audio volume level of that clip untill the loudest peak comes near the 0db level)

Free apps that many of us use are Audacity or Ocen Audio (click the names for downloads from their site) Youtube has loads of insight on the matter of normalizing audioclips with software like these.

Bottomline2: The Recording WAV you made is NOT the final file you use to share. It’s the cleanest & safest version of your mix that needs to undergo some small edits before you let it loose upon us.

I hope you understand it a bit now.

Regards Nico

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In short it’s like buying a BMW M5 but speed is limited by software to 70miles an hour :thinking:

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Only if your idea of a quality car is the one that just goes fast. Like kids looking at parked car’s speedometers and admiring those who have the higher number on it.

But considering what some people comment here, their idea of good sound quality means that it’s loud.

Don’t get me wrong, probably Denon should add a user setting for record volume.

But considering you still need to transfer your record file onto a computer for uploading - pretending that running it before through a free software like Audacity and normalizing it (a fracking 30sec task) - is a deal breaker? LOL

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I get all angles

Maybe an option for people who know what they are doing.

I don’t have the P4 so I have no clue how low the recordings are.

:v:t5:

Yeah, coz even the minority need representation lol

after posting this; just reading the “LOL” in your reply LOL

Actually, No.

It’s the way we allways do no ?

Recording with Traktor, ok in this case the recording is already on you computer, same workflow. You just check your mix and normalize the audio before you pass it around no? Or am i the only one who’s been doing this?

Same when i stepped over to Pioneer RX2… Recorded straight to the usbstick, Imported the file to my computer, loaded it into my program, checked the waveform, normalized it and boom. Ready for listening and passing it around.

After i had it with the limitations in standalone mode from pioneer i went to Prime 4 and i came to the discovery that because of the lower level output… my mixes just sounded more clear after the process!!

Thinking you just recorded a file and can pass it around as a final is just wrong.

You realy need to prep your clip for several reasons

  • streaming for spotify
  • Streaming for Soundcloud
  • Streaming for Youtube
  • car
  • mp3 player

Each platform realy needs it’s own prepping as it has their own requirements, trust me :smiley:

The overal prepping is:

  • Normalize
  • EQ where needed (especially get rid of the low end until 35-40 hz)

And then you need to export your file according to the platform’s requirements. read: 1 mix = several export files according to your platforms.

So it’s good you have a neutral starting raw master file where you can start from.

Want it loud, then make it loud in a controlled manner. I think THAT is the whole idea behind it.

It’s not hard to prove this issue whether it’s occurring or not. Did anyone ever prove it’s happening? I gave clear instructions on how to do it. The fact people are either too high or too lazy to actually do that is pretty consistent with the possibility there’s actually nothing wrong with the record level and you’re all either just too high or too lazy to get off your duffs and tweak a perfectly-normal recording in post. No raw, original digital recording done right is going to be running as hot as ‘hot’ released tracks or mixes. I’m not saying I know for certain there’s nothing wrong, but I think this is all still very suspicious that there may very well be nothing wrong. With all the analogies being thrown around, I’ve got another one for you. If someone tells me big foot’s sitting next to them and I tell them how to easily demonstrate to me that big foot is actually with them and a year goes by and they still haven’t done that while they continue to make that claim, I’m justified in being suspicious of their claim.

Coming from using the pioneer rx2 ,rr& also rekordbox dj. I never had low recording. I did mention it a while back to denon about the low recording. They are aware of it. I use a normalization software to boost up the volume unit they get a fix on it. Hope they fix it on future firmware

They are aware that people are complaining. I haven’t heard any admission from InMusic yet that it’s impossible to actually clip the recording right now.

When you’ve absolutely maxed everything out on the channels during a recording on the P4, what is the actual max level of the recording ever when you open it up prior to normalizing function in software?

If there is an actual real issue with the recordings being quiet, then there will be a maximum level you can get that is not actually 0dBFS. Simple fact.

And by the way, turn the limiter off on the P4.

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Is there any way maybe you can do a video on it to see how you doing it? That might help other understand an see how it’s done. :wink:

You don’t need a video to follow very simple instructions to demonstrate whether the P4 does or does not have an issue with recording levels:

  1. Turn the limiter off on it in preferences/utility settings.
  2. Turn off the crossfader assigns.
  3. Play a track on every channel at the same time.
  4. Put the gain/trim knobs, EQs, and channel faders all at max.
  5. Record it within the P4.
  6. Open the P4 recording in an editor or DAW.
  7. Report the maximum volume below dBFS clipping that the recording reached.

No need to play it over headphones or speakers or anything else.

If there’s a real problem, you can post the audio file or a video or photo screen capture of the audio editor PRIOR to normalization to prove what you’ve said.

My MPC Live has a NORMALIZE function on audio clips… Based on similarities in hardware and build in gear (Denon & Akai: same manufacturer, also some distro…) i can imagine they can implement a function as this in the future… but for a large file it takes loads of memory to process this…