Take a look at the vid…
The channels level is in the middel from the source, but he actually has to turm it up to 3/4 when he plays the recording.
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It doesn’t matter how many time you say it, it doesn’t clean up the fact that it came across as an insult.
Technically you are correct, but socially, you are wrong. Logical minds function that way.
We are not here to argue with you about the issue, it is just more efficient to get suggestions from someone that has the same issue and product. Add on the fact that you constantly negate the fact the issue exists at all and it gets worse with each post.
From a bunch of people afraid to go over the 0 on the meters? Ok. Good luck with that, man.
I suggest it might be true and offer a very easy, simple, quick way to show it. It actually comes off as either people who don’t know what they’re talking about complaining or like possibly a kind of deceit… don’t you think? I mean, if we want to talk about appearances, this is a situation of big claims being made and nothing to back it up, and it’s not like providing evidence in this case is difficult or time consuming. Correct me if I’m wrong.
You’re wrong.
Hopefully others respond to your line of questioning and disdain for the P4. Just thought I would give some friendly response to your strange tone on this forum, but I see it’s no use.
What am I supposed to see that’s useful in that video? He says “it can sound a little bit quiet” regarding the recording or words to that effect. But he’s recording an analog input, he doesn’t even have the channel fader all the way up, and he’s not metering it properly, anyway. So it’s just kind of a vague, unfounded opinion he happens to give in passing in the video. By the way, the X1800 pads many of the inputs substantially, which is appropriate, because otherwise you have to run the gain/trim knobs way down to meter the channels to a good spot. If there was no pad, the gain/trim knobs at unity would put hotly-mastered tracks literally right below the clip point. That’s the difference between mixing and recording in the digital domain and mastered commercially-released music, though Apple would tell you to keep below the -3dBFS point for safety in the modern era.
You didn’t describe why I’m wrong.
As for the “disdain”, my comments on the P4 are probably helping sales. My problems are on the release of such a product and its pricing and feature bracketing, InMusic’s behavior as precedent towards early adopters, and not the product itself.
Yes, I and others felt the same way that you did about that. Knowing that he owns, or at least sets up and services SC5000 models, I would have trouble disagreeing with anyone who says that it sounds like a comment between Jealousy and selfishness.
Denon have has more than one flagship, simultaneously in the past. Who’s to say that the SC5000 is the flagship player and the Prime 4, at the same time, is the flagship all-in-one combo? The x1800 would then logically be the flagship mixer. I don’t see any problem in having more than one flagship model.
Will a record meter be helpful?
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In the Video Engel posted of the guy recording
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The channel faders are not full
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His line trim knobs were not at 12 o’clock
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I gain stage with the channel fader to the max
Just curious as to why he would not have the line faders all the way up
The Master should not have any effect recording…I have never come across a mixer that affects the recording with a master
So you don’t disturb your neighbors, turn down the speakers directly or amp.
Maybe that is what Reticuli wanted to see you doing in the video.
Yes, this is what many of us have been asking for…record meters.
When playing live, how are you not adjusting the channel faders or the gains on songs?
This would affect the recording volume on the P4if either are adjusted. Either way, with the line faders at full, the recording level is much lower than other similar products.
That’s not actually relevant for reasons I already stated. Just look at the channel meter and the fader. And then there’s the CF to worry about, too, but hard to see in the vid.
The recording level should be the same as one channel’s meter with that one channel wide open and assuming the crossfader’s not affecting anything… accounting for 0 on the channel meter being -18 to -20 dB from clip.
Anyway, the channelfader, that was playing the recorded part, was higher than the original channelfader, and yet he had to turn up the channel gain knob with at least 1/4 more… So honestly I think that, that small clip shows it pretty good: The volume on a recorded file is quite lower.
Been reading with you all, but this is turning into a soap opera…
Obviously the recording is or needs to be at a lower level than the source track, because if it was not and you play more than one track, everything goes into clipping (most tracks are mastered at -3 or even near 0 dBFS).
One could argue that recording at -18dBFS is low, but that gives you maximum headroom to play with.
Yes, a recording level option is very welcome to me also. However, if implemented, the first topic poster that states his mix is clipping all over, will be shot on-sight! 
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Valid point. 
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To stop all of this. Denon has recognized the issue and stated…
"Hi all, so you know the dev team is aware of this and the increased recording level will come in one of the next point releases.
Thanks J"
Simple, no back and forth, no analyzing further.
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A real time VU meter in the recording panel will be helpful so. One that will be active independent of if record is active or not (unlike the phase meter which only works when sync is active)
With this, they can adjust the channels, trim and whatnots prior to starting record.
The channel fader on the mixer must be all the up in order to send the entire volume of the mixer’s trim/gain & EQ stage’s in the mixer’s virtual signal path to the mix bus, output, and internal record sections. It might be all digital and virtual, but there’s a flow in the data as to what controls what volume and how that volume is passed downstream in the path.
The position of the gain/trim knobs is completely irrelevant in and of itself.
What’s important is the level as shown on the channel meter for that channel. That channel meter was not a proper, hot level on its meter. That channel fader was not all the way up. The crossfader was assigned and it’s difficult to even tell what that was set as. THIS IS THE STUFF THAT ACTUALLY DICTATES THE RECORD LEVEL.
The small clip is not particularly relevent about this discussion except yet another person who’s not even properly using the mixer to get normal record levels and then complaining about the P4’s record function as defective.
Shouldn’t actually be necessary. The record level should be exactly the same level as shown on the master meter on the P4 when the master volume knob is at that unity zero mark… again, with people realizing that 0 on the meter is -18 to -20dB below 0dB full scale clip.
It might mean there’s something wrong, or that there’s nothing wrong with it and you’ve all just been so vocal about it they’re planning to soon give you the option to either compress the bejebus out of the signal into 0dBFS on the record section or just boost the gain in realtime without a record limiter and potentially clip the heck out of it. As I mentioned, a simple post-process 2x sample level 6dB increment boost (or two) of it or even a cpu-intensive post-process normalization will probably be better options… unless you like even more heavily-compressed recordings or clipping.
But yeah, could possibly be an issue with the record levels, but you’d never be able to conclude that from the discussion in these threads or the recordings or videos I’ve seen thus far.
Not saying it’s necessary but helpful.
It will add another extra visual representation…in addition to the line VU meter already on the hardware.
I don’t understand what you mean by the channel trim/gain knob not being important.
If I have the trim knob at the lowest point, no music will be heard and that will also be perceived in the recording.
Please educate me and no need for a long essay one or two paragraphs will do
I am almost certain the master gain should not affect the recording so we can park that to one side.
Do not “park aside” the master knob subject, since if that’s not at its “0” on the P4, you don’t know what you’re metering is on the mix bus or the record sections, and for that matter you could even be clipping the zone or the booth if those got pushed too far. You need a post-fader meter reference, too. Set the master at that 0 mark around the knob and leave it.
Since a properly-used master meter would give you the same information, the recording meter would be redundant if indeed there’s nothing different or wrong with the record levels, which so far I have no reason to think otherwise and, indeed, keep seeing quite a consistent repeated pattern of people not even running their levels right.
You can’t just set the gain/trim knob at some point regardless of how the audio is metering through that channel. By itself, it’s not relevant. Its position is to affect the channel level pre-fader, which is shown on the channel meter. If you’re only lighting 4 of the channel meter LEDs, that’s not a hot enough channel. TURN THE GAIN/TRIM UP.
Then if that channel fader is not at its unity (max on the P4 fader), you’re not even sending that full signal as represented by the channel meter to the virtual mix bus, outputs, record section, etc. Ditto with how the crossfader affects things.
Bad usage on top of bad usage.
I think we are saying the same thing
When I mentioned trim pot not being at 12 in my previous post , I meant to say it’s perhaps The signal is not hot enough. It was just an observation. I didn’t see the channel VU meter so I’m not sure if the material being played is mastered hot and thus requires gain to be turned down
I also play with faders all the way up. And I adjust individual trim now and then. (Btw with Serato I rarely have to touch the trims)
I know some folks that leave a bit of room on their channel fader as volume control ie only going up to 80% and using the 20% left as a way to manage the volume. Seems like that’s similar to what the guy did in the video.
I understand that the master gain is necessary to monitor the overall mix, but in the particular topic of discussion ie low recording, I’m not sure how it affects it.