Prime internal recording level

General Area Tips, Tricks, & Tutorials
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42

My conclusion is that it really shouldn’t be necessary to involve third party products to finish off a job that should have been done in the first place.

In my many decades of owning and using various hardware and software which can record audio, every single one of those things offers record level meters and a way to set recording level. Whether that’s cassette decks, reel to reel tape machines, rack CD mastering recorders, hand held digital recorders etc. etc.

This is the only time I’ve ever encountered a device that offers recording but doesn’t allow you to see or set the level yourself.

3 Likes
43

If you read or watch pretty much every single guide to ‘recording a DJ set’ or music session, they all include a mastering step before output, and honestly it’s never been easier to do it, even GarageBand can do it.

How do you deal with audio peaks that clip because the initial level was too high? thats just lost data/crappy sound. Running the initial level low allows for spikes in audio to remain below the threshold and the normalise process then brings the other audio up to that level, ensuring a clean, professional sounding end product.

44

I know how to set a recording level. The ability to do so has been available for longer than I’ve been alive. It’s a standard thing on recording devices.

I’m not necessarily talking about recording “a DJ set”, just plain and simple recording. If the product offers recording, then it should do so properly, with a level meter and a gain control.

Dealing with clipping? If you set the recording level appropriately it won’t happen. That’s why the level controls and metering exist (on other devices).

2 Likes
45

It’s time to address this issue once and for all.

*Fellow Dj’s Please add your concerns and vote for this feature request;

https://community.enginedj.com/t/recording-settings-missing/48741

46

Ok, here I come, from the SC Live 4 side. I don’t know how long it’s been possible to record my mix in LIVE 4, but it also works on this controller. If I’ve understood correctly, the Prime products tend to “understeer” the recording, i.e. have a high reserve for clipping, even if four decks and the echo effect are recorded simultaneously (that’s exactly my thing :wink: )

I miss this behavior with the SC LIVE 4, where I have to reduce the channels even when using only two channels so that they don’t go “blue”. If I then add a master effect, the recording goes to the 0db mark, although I don’t know whether an internal software limiter prevents real digital clipping. For me as an SC LIVE 4 user who frequently records my mixes, it is more important to have a reasonable distance to the clipping than a high signal-to-noise ratio.

That’s why I record my mixes rather elaborately compared to a record button via the main out and a properly leveled interface. Even then, I still have sufficient signal-to-noise ratio, but I have full visual control during recording.

Denon, if there was an option within the settings to correct the recording level in, say, 3 dB steps between -12 and +12 dB, both Prime and SC Live users might find the recording feature more practical.

47

Nobodies adding +12db as a base recording level, ridiculous thing to request. My Mastersounds isolators only top out at +12db. Unity is 0db

1 Like
48

OK, I would be really surprised if this solves my problem of not being able to control recordings within engine dj…

49

What are you wanting to control exactly?

I’ve found the current level perfectly adequate for providing a flat file to post process in something like Audacity.

50

Thank you for taking the time.

If my point hasn’t come across properly so far, then it must be due to my inadequate ability to explain technical issues, sorry.

Basically, it’s about the following:

I would like to record my mixes within Engine DJ within my SC LIVE 4. Contrary to what is described here in this article (in relation to prime controllers), the recording is rather too loud, I know that’s not a technical term, but especially when I use two channels that are pre-amplified up to the blue LED as prescribed and then I also use an additive effect, then there are places in the recording that reach the 0dB (peak) mark. In Audacity, these points are also marked as digitally clipped. This indicates (to me) that more than two samples in a row reach the 0dB mark.

However, I don’t want to use digitally clipped material for post-production. I would rather buy an unexpected clipping with the help of a lower signal-to-noise ratio. I also really want to use the “prescribed” pre-amplification of the channels and not just have to work within the lower two or three white LEDs. This distracts me immensely when mixing and hinders a smooth workflow, especially because I can’t foresee whether an additional effect will lead to clipping after all.

Unfortunately, instructions on the Internet and the technical documentation do not indicate this behavior, which surprises me, because I cannot imagine that only my controller reacts this way.

My workaround so far: I use a sound card on a computer to record the mix there. This way I can avoid unresolved questions about digital clipping live without having to judge a two-hour recording as “not so suitable”. I tend to mix less dynamic material, which does not give me sleepless nights about noise and quality of the recording. If I follow this chain: digital-analog-digital conversion plus peak headroom of 3dB, I will definitely come to a loss of the signal-to-noise ratio of 9dB plus the digital jitter.

So if I could preset a reduction of 9dB in Engine DJ from the start in my (unusual?) case, I would avoid digital clipping, jitter and an unwieldy setup. And as I said, I would be using a function that I paid for but don’t use because of the above imponderables.

Regarding the range from -12 to + 12dB: I was also thinking of Prime users who tend to talk about a recording level that is too low. Please don’t pin me down on the exact practical values, that was just a suggestion.

So I hope my point is clearer now or I’m just too stupid to make it clear.

51

It sounds like you’re running your channel levels too high from what i can make out. There’s 6 LED lights on the meter and you shouldn’t ever be running your channels above the 4th one in reality. The blue LED is the InMusic equivalent of ‘Red’ LEDs or ‘Redlining’ in DJ terms. You need to be setting your channel trim at a better level, as an example on my Prime 2 its rarely past the 11 o clock position on the dial for standard recordings.

Effects should never lead to clipping because you should never have the channel output at the level to instigate that. You also shouldn’t really be running effects to the point where it clips either, for example leaving a single beat echo on full wet for a long period of time as this is just layering the music over the top of itself quite brutally, it wont sound good and won’t do your system any favours either.