LoL so much BS all around. Ventura made issues for everybody.
One of the examples… Anyway - all other companies in the stage industry also asked users to hold up with the updates, as apple again made some changes that can cause issues. Media server software, video rendering, audio processing, real time simulations physics simulation softwares - all this is affected. Even programs to simulate circuits have problems with ventura now. Wait patiently and all will be good. Good night…
Well said, @STU-C . Pioneers failure to handle updates to MacOS in a timely fashion is nothing less than appalling. It has been a problem that has accrued to Denon’s advantage. It’s the reason that I sold my Nexus 900, DDJ-SX2, and am selling my xdj-xz. [rambling rant begins here] It’s really a shame, because the underlying Rekordbox platform is brilliant. To understand how brilliant you need to look at the definition of “rekordbox.xml”. It allows one to specify time signatures, change them at any point, have measures that are short a beat, or long by twi beats, whatever. It allows key changes at any point and much more. And if you. save the xml, edit it in any of the ways I mentioned, and reload it, rekordbox will reflect all these changes at runtime. And for all of that they don’t implement a beatgrid editor that will do any of those things. Even basic editing of a variable tempo track is needlesly hellish. I’m not sure what happened to the original architectural vision of the original developers. As someone with a background to understand how much they are squandering it breaks my heart, but Denon is stepping up its game on a continuing and rapid pace, so I am willing to forgive a delay. I’ve spent to much time on the other side of the equation and I know that they cannot simply fix everything by force of will. The assumpitons that some people make about the resources Denon DJ must have at their disposal are understandable, but laughable to anyone who knows what goes on behind the scenes, the dust tape and baling wire that holds together most syPrime Go ftware. [end of rant] BTW, my Prime Go make my XDJ-XZ look like a finely crafted stone axe.
Yeah ive spent many hours with Pioneer gear too. Tbh though my Prime 2 is back with Denon for a 2nd repair after they didnt fix my issue the first time. I say didnt fix, they did some work on the left platter but the issue i have is firmware related im convinced, so im down to using a Mixtrack Pro FX through a little Behringer sub mixer (for balanced out to the house system). I still love the Prime 2 but im seriously tempted to get rid of it and pick up something like a DJM-S7 to use with a pair of LC-6000s. i wanted rid of Serato/Laptop but a standalone at a gig is just too risky, unless i also run it through the sub mixer so i can flip to some other music while i reboot.
I agree with you about resources and people’s assumptions though. I also do photography and use a Fujifilm camera, people make expectations about their ability to develop firmware against Canon and Sony, basically claiming ‘why cant they just do XYZ like Sony and Canon do’… a simple look at the finances of those 2 companies in comparison to Fujifilm would give an answer.
If you want to talk about big changes to an OS, try the jump from Win3.1 to 95. Microsoft barely got their own software working on the new OS when it was released. Every update of Windows since has been awful to support in the first few months or more. Apple OS is not much better, except their own software tends to be OK (ish).
While updates to OS’s may appear superficial on the surface, Ventura being a classic example. Under the hood there are usually big changes, especially where "such and such now performs 13% faster etc etc).
Having been in IT support since the mid late 90’s I always advised my customers to avoid updating immediately if they could help it (windows update and mac update can make this hard).
I have always had to run beta software in the past as I needed to ensure I was able to support my customers from day 1 of release, however this was my job, so I installed these on different computers to the ones I ran my business on. I’d have been an idiot to run my business on untested software. The only exception was the final couple of betas of Windows 7 were more stable than XP in most cases where basic office style software was being run.
If you have two incompatible jobs in this respect (DJ’ing & software support), then you might have to make a choice about which one is more important if you cannot afford 2. You can’t make one choice and then complain the other has suffered.
We shouldn’t expect everything to work immediately. We should want Denon to make sure it works well. Any resources they put into making sure EngineDJ works with Ventura will be resources that they can’t put into feature updates. Resources will have a limit.
If you really want to direct your fury, maybe do so at Apple. Ventura was a release riddled with bugs and performance issues to such a degree that there is a .1 update coming already in the next few weeks, much like they did after releasing Monterey and previous version upgrades. Apple have far bigger resources and release the software to a calendar cycle (when it is best for shareholders) rather than to a development cycle (when it is best for users). Why should Denon invest their resources to patch their software so it works on shifting sand like the .0 release of the software. If they have any sense (and they probably do, and probably have) they will sit until the .1 beta arrives for them to test on like most other software companies.
FYI Apple is having problems with some of its own software on Ventura .0, so what chance does anyone else have?
I do have multiple laptops and PCs and I do maintain the music collection across multiple devices with a backup, so it is not a problem. But most people do not have this luxury and rolling back on OSX is not as easy as it could be with the current updates. The changes are actually very small and they have been communicated months in advance. And most of the small companies that have audio software have successfully updated in time. Talking about Ableton Live and many more.
It is possible to keep your software up2date and still offer users the option to run the latest OS updates a MONTH after the release. Nobody said update straight at the release, but like with anything else - I check stability issues with the OS itself, reports from the users who report critical bugs with the OS or core drivers/functions and since Ventura had none (just like Monterrey) - why not. This is by far the smallest update recently, not even coming close to the release of the ARM M1 chips where the struggle to update the software was real (and for a good reason). With Ventura it should not take this long, that’s it. This is a regular security and feature update for the OS, that happens multiple times per year. No shifting sands here, no architecture changes.
And the fact that I am prepared and just need to plug in a different device does not mean that I should be happy that the software became a useless bunch of code on the main machine. Pointing this out to the developers should be done way more often.
The situation out there is the following: more and more bugs are released upon the paying customer. Instead of proper QA and internal alpha and beta testing on a mass scale with dedicated paid employees who test it, the customer is the beta tester. This affects pretty much everything - from the banking app on iOS to audio software on MacOS to games on Windows to drivers across the board to even problematic BIOS versions that actually need to be flashed by the consumer. And people are not happy about it. Demanding stable software regardless of the OS is the minimum what customers should do. Everyone knows that bugs happen, but if critical bugs stay online for months - this is where the problems begin. Less day1 patches, less borked updates, more internal testing and confirmation for compatibility prior to release is what customers want. To have more confidence in the product. And if something goes wrong on a weekend, the customers want to be sure that the next weekend the problem is solved.
@STU-C First things first, I owe you an apology. Just as “two wrongs don’t make a right”, two trollings don’t make a civil conversation. To answer your question (which you shouldn’t have had to ask, since I should not have made that crack)
Ah ok, fair point. That’s purely down to laziness and bad internet habits for typing out text. I am of the opinion that it’s an informal setting and as long as the basic spelling is correct and the comment is legible then it is good enough. A few of those words seem to never be picked up by the auto correct either, more on my work laptop than my personal devices.
Don’t worry though you’ll never see me writing like a ‘bro’, it’ll always be a standard form of English.
Hey chaps - it’s been almost 7 weeks now since you made this announcement and 3 weeks since you said “just a few weeks before we can release it”. Can you give us an update please ? An ETA would be nice as then I could figure out if it would be worth moving everything over to windows or sticking with Mac if the update is just around the corner. Thanks.
Hey Denon I’m wondering the same thing. It’s super frustrating using a work around until the update is pushed.
I found an easy solution or “workaround” for the time being if you have a prime 4 with an internal ssd installed like me.
After using the library backup option on my Mac I Just copied the the contents of my music folder where everything was saved, over to the root of a flash drive/external drive, then I plugged it in to a pc with engine prime installed.
It loaded everything perfectly. Then I was able to use the sync manager to copy my Playlist updates to my prime 4 internal ssd very easily after that.
Another option is, you can simply use that same flash drive/external drive by plugging it directly into the prime 4.
It’s honestly really simple, sync manager just kinda of automates this process, but it’s the same thing as dragging and dropping the entire contents of your Collection onto the root of a USB drive.
It’s a no brainer.
I‘m tired to wait for the update. Changed my SC Live 4 to Pio Rev 7. Had 30 Days moneyback warranty
If I don’t use Sync on USB (I always copy my database directly from the computer hard disk to the SSD in the SC6000) the Ventura problem should not affect me, right?
Well Engine DJ is used to analyze tracks and work with hotcues and whatnot on your device. You can do some workarounds, but this is always super annoying and I have switched to a windows based machine for now.
No offense, but the answer somehow has nothing to do with my question. 
I know what Engine DJ is. My question is about the problem with OSX Ventura. As I understand it, it only affects when I sync via sync manager to an USB device ?
It affects all drives on OSX Ventura, so you will not be able to export or import anything from any internal drive into Engine DJ. Which turns the software into a glorified music player. Maintaining your database between devices and different drives becomes impossible when you only have a Mac with Ventura. Hold off the update and you will be fine.
Thank you, that’s what I wanted to know. 
ok so now you can go and complain on the pioneer forum! I don’t see how this comment can contribute here on the forum!!
Such comments are helpful. Losing customers to an update that should be done in 24 hours (critical bug) but has not been done in 2 months (!) will drive users to the competition. Providing good hardware is only a part of the story if the software is not working on the newest machines and the company will lose customers like that.
That’s not true, it only affects FAT devices. You can still import songs without problems from APFS/HFS and other formats.
Export works only on FAT so the software can’t do that on Ventura.
