Hi all. I own a Prime 4 and a Prime Go. Since I upgraded to 3.1 I have noticed a difference between the VU meters and the actual output volume. Where the VU meters never reach above 0db, the output volume is clipping and so does the on-deck recording.
Anyone else have the same experience?
Interesting as the Prime 4 has now gone to software mixing from hardware DSP mixing so this could be something within that change.
Iāll give it a go later.
Thanks! Please keep me posted. I have the RCA master out of my Prime 4 hooked to a Pioneer RMX-500. It too indicates redlining (thereās a LED for that on the RMX) while all the Primeās VU meters show below 0dB
All that means is that the master output of the Prime 4 is set to a higher standard than what the input of the RMX-500 is expecting. Just lower the master volume of the Prime 4.
FYI there are two distinct āindustry standardā levels: -10dBV (consumer level) and +4dBu (pro level). If you plug a pro level output into a consumer level input, the result isā¦too much signal.
As for recordings clipping though, that seems unlikely as Denon set the recording level extremely low, so even if you push levels hard, itās almost impossible to overload.
Doesnāt the RMX-500 have its own input and output adjustment like the old EFX units used to? So you can balance that signal in the effects unit yourself?
Have you tried removing that from the signal chain and checking the sound direct into whatever speakers youāre using?
Edit: I just googled, it has its own signal level and volume on the side.
Thatās what I noticed before too. When I recorded with the on-deck VU meters at or around 0dB, I had about 3 to 4 dB of headroom on the recording. When I did the same a couple of days ago, the resulting recording was as shown in attached picture.
The only way I can make a decent recording is when I keep all VU-levels around -10bBā¦ !
I have, and always have had, the RMX-500ās signal level switch set to 0dB. Itās since the 3.1 update that it suddenly indicates redlining where I donāt see any redlining on the Primeās VU meters.
Edit: I just tried and switched the RMXās signal level switch to +4dB and it doesnāt show redlining anymore. Seems like they amped up the master out signal in the new update then.
Do you have the ability to try it using the balanced connections? Or as I suggested removing the RMX from the chain to see what level itās running into your sound system?
Iād say if it was an issue related to the update itself there would be others reporting the same problem as it would be consistent across all prime 4s.
You could also try rolling back to the earlier firmware to see if it disappears and record both as info for the support team if it is an issue.
Yes, I just tried that. There is no distortion when I go straight to my amp. When I switch the RMX-500 to +4dB, it also doesnāt show redlining anymore.
That still leaves the recording volume, which is my main issue, actually. I record sets to be played at the radio and having my levels at -10dB in order for my recording to come out right would work, but just feels ānot as it should beā.
Have you temporarily rolled back and checked it out? Iāll jump on my Prime 4 now and see if I can see anything amiss.
Rolling back is as easy as dropping the previous 3.0.1 version onto a stick and doing the update (or downgrade). Iāll let you know what I find.
I just had a look at the image you posted:
Why am I seeing two different colour waveforms here? One smaller lighter coloured (which is what Iād expect to see from the Denon recording) and then a much bigger darker one?
No issues here. The usual -20dB waveform.
The waveform I posted is from Audacity. This is after loading the WAV-file the deck created. The colours are as follows: the light-blue area in Audacity waveform is the RMS amplitude, the dark-blue envelope is the peak amplitude.
As you can see, entire sections of the recording are going off the scale. Before, using the same settings, I always had 3 to 4 dB to spare before it would peak in the dark blue section.
Iām away from my decks for the next few hours. Iāll roll back to 3.0.1 and give it a try. After that, I will do a USB update, since both decks were upgraded OTA. I understood that that could cause issues as wellā¦
Iāve downgraded my Prime 4 and done two tests on two firmwares: V3.0.1 & V3.1.0
Both seemed exactly like any other firmware on the record end of things. The recordings didnāt come out hot and I had to boost them (as usual) with the gain trim when I played them back on each deck. The initial test is that both 3.0.1 & 3.1.0 seem as before. Do you have the master limiter set to on? Mine is off.
One thing to check as I had to do thisā¦ your extra headphone gain in settings. When I updated, something happened and the headphone audio was distorting and sounded rubbish. I brought it down to 0dB and itās okay now. Iāve never changed this setting and always do a factory reset on my Prime gear after any firmware update (keeps everything fresh) and for some reason this headphone setting was still above 0db.
This isnāt to say you donāt have a different experience on your Prime 4. There are slight production revisions (different component/chip sources) during these production runs. The white Prime 4 was identical apart from colour yet we found out soon after it launched that the screen brightness (not being able to dim) had a bug in it that only affected the white variation. It depends on when you bought your Prime 4. Mine is a launch day model.
Because inside the Prime 4 isnāt all on one board, the soundboard in yours could have a slight variance, especially when we went through the great chip shortage of 2021/2022. Iām not saying it is the case but it can explain how some people get affected by certain bugs and others not when using seemingly the same model. A DSP/CPU from two manufacturing sources would need maintaining in code accordingly and this can sometimes be overlooked when testing. Iām confident this isnāt the case though but they did move from analogue to digital mixing with this latest version so itās something to watch out for.
I recorded a 10 minute mix of three songs. Each one had the gain set at 12 oāclock and had one white LED lit throughout the mix. The master out wasnāt tested (the missus is sleeping).
Off-topic but I had one of the first batches of new shape Ford Focus EcoBoost 150 a few years ago and when it needed a new heater matrix it turns out the one it needed wasnāt listed as a part. Checked the old model in case they dipped into the old parts bin. Nope. Turns out they ādid their own thingā at the factory on these particular runs. Brilliant 
Thatās what you get for buying a Ford (says the guy whoās 3 month old Audi just spent a week at the dealers getting new glow plugs and control unit) 
I agree with you there seems to be something amiss there. I think the downgrade, test, upgrade is probably best.
You could also run your sound system from the record out and check the Audio levels to see if there is a huge difference between the two by listening.
The version you get when it downloads OTA is the same as the computer USB cable and USB stick versions but some people have had better success when the stick/OTA fails.
Also, please make sure you get the mixer update. After the OS firmware update it will look like it freezes but itās still doing its thing (naughty Denon DJ for not letting us know itās still working). It will then load a mixer and control surface firmware update which is the update for the internals. You need this one. Donāt interrupt it even if you think itās finished. It will then turn off and you have to turn it back on again.
Iāve got a Qashqai Tekna now so flying the flag for the North East!
Problem is that Iām not running a record-out. I record my set on the deck itself. Since itās a stand alone with an internal SSD (on my Prime 4) or a 1Tb SD card (on my Prime Go), I just press the on screen record option and go! Thatās what makes it so wierd. The recording level should be what the VU-meters say, but it seems to be WAY higher.
Ahhh yeah sorry my mistake, I forgot about the internal recording, forget what I said on that count.
