Iām just asking myself, if it will be possible, to hit āshiftā and ākeyā simultaneously to jump back to the original key of a track. I think if these two pads are too far away and it will be impossible to use this feature and beatmatch at the same time. Imo itās a counterrotating workflow and Iām a DJ and not an acrobat
btw: If Iām right, these pads are situated already in this arrangement in the surface of the āLIVEā environment; in the PRIME environment the pads are better situated, but itās a lot of conentration to hit at the right moment and shift the faders and knobs at the same time.
Mockups are always fun. Here is my āmore pragmaticā version.
I worked on this a longer time ago, where Stems and Bluetooth werenāt a big thing yet. Wanted to post it once I do my Prime 4 long-term video review, but since weāre here already, why not show it to you now. Why āpragmaticā? Because I did all changes, while keeping certain key parameters the same:
Same size and form (!) ā all cases and bags do fit, still reasonably easy to transport
Same key components like 10.1" screen and knobs ā reduces unnecessary costs
Keep the user experience consistent across all devices and improve that further
Here are my ideas of improvements for a āPrime Xā or whatever:
a) MIXER
Restructured mixer layout, following the āclub styleā layout
Improved global browse and control section, with dedicated View, Menu, Lighting and a Custom/Rec button
Dedicated Aux/Bluetooth section with 1-band tone EQ control
Dedicated Sampler section
Dedicated SweepFX parameter knob control
Reworked BPM FX section (could be further refined)
Two adjust knobs (for crossfader and channels), also made smaller
Added master balance L/R control knob
Improved Mic section (2x 3-band EQ, MicFX knob)
More robust channel faders, not anymore soldered
b) DECKS
With the mixer section being narrower, the decks can be made larger
Jog diameter increased from 6" to 7", improved jog screens, jog adjust
Added dedicated Quantize and Key Up/Down buttons
Added Stems sections (could be further refined), with Punch-In (Hold) button
Added OLED displays for performance pads, similar to the Rane Performer
Shift, Sync, Key and Vinyl buttons now consistent with other Denon devices
Autoloop Encoders illuminated (like Prime Go and SC5k/6k)
More robust play/pause buttons
Optional: Motorized version, using Rane parts
c) MULTI-SECTIONS (new)
The former FX 1 & 2 engine sections could be used for something different now. I have several ideas, but just crafted one example here
OLED screen and encoders could be used for extras like a drum synth / step sequencer, hardware controls for Engine Lighting, advanced Stems features, or similar
āQ Link modeā toggles the functionality of the multi-section
16 small RGB pads with page/parameter and bank/group buttons
Multi purpose architecture would make this a big USP
These two sections are just an idea and could be designed / utilized entirely differently!
d) MISC/GLOBAL
No reboot needed when switching between standalone and PC-mode
Standalone DVS mode with turntables, optional: also Rane Twelves
Faster SoC with 8GB+ of RAM and more I/O bandwidth
Brighter main screen
More robust LAN port and IEC power lock
Same size and nearly same weight as P4/P4+
Send/Return (switchable to Main2 + Booth2)
DMX output socket
Optional: Larger main screen using smaller bezels (10"->11")
Here is an excellent job here, with a well thought out unit and a well optimized management of the available space
There are however some points on which I am doubtful
The Q Link section is the minipads:
I think that introducing so many buttons would cause manufacturing costs to skyrocket and drastically increase the risk of hardware failure, especially when we know that Denon does not have a good reputation when it comes to choosing durable button switches that can withstand millions of cycles.
The oled screens of the pad section:
Here too in my opinion it is a gadget that is clearly not essential and that would have a tendency to not only increase manufacturing costs, but also to considerably increase the risk of failure of these same screens. Letās remember that we have seen a lot of oled screens fail for no reason on both prime 4 units and x1850 mixers
Letās not forget that the more complex a system is, the higher the risk of failure and the lower the reliability.
Letās keep the essentials and avoid superfluous gadgets, the main screen already does a very good job of indicating what needs to be indicated, no need to add a whole bunch of useless things that could add potential problems.
Good space management for the expansion of the Jogwheels, 7 inches already seems to me to be a very decent size for this type of unit.
Otherwise I really like the layout of the mixer part, the placement of the navigation wheel and track loading section is really well thought out.
Ideally, the upfaders would have a magnetic plate that could be easily removed for easy access and replacement (like on the Kontrol Z2 mixer for those who know).
Indeed, those two fancy āQ-Link sections are more like a wild experiment of me, and not meant 110% serious. That space just would remain free otherwise, and of course we could keep it more simple, with just the encoders, screens and maybe a few buttons only. Or increase the deck size further vertically, making the jogs 8ā big and adding the option for motorized platters, too. The knowledge and parts are already here (Rane).
OLED screen failure are not a general problem, but a specific ones of the model parts used in the X1800/50 mixers. These are much bigger screens than the tiny ones used in the P4/+, the Control One, or many Akai units (theyāre also in my Force and 100% fine). These parts should cause no issues.
A future X1900 mixer should of course come with better / more robust screens, next to many other user requests (better faders, more unique features Ć” la V10/A9, a more flagship vibe lik the X1700 once had, etc.)
Cool idea - I think Qlink is a bit oversized. But we should keep 2 FX banks that should finally work SIMULTANEOUSLY.
The FX selection should somehow be faster than moving through all the effects. 3 favorite buttons on each side with switchable bank 1 and 2 like on the Rev7 would be the optimum. And FX paddles would be the icing on the cake.
As I mentioned in a previous post, it might be useful to have the physical TouchStrip of the LC6000 that could easily fill this empty space.
Of course we have the needle drop on the touchscreen, but I think itās always good to have it in physical. Not to mention that on some screen layouts, especially in 4 deck mode, the touch area of āāthe waveform used for the needle drop is not always very large and precise.
I do have one suggestion for new hardware.
A button labelled as ā2/3 SYNCā that does exactly the same as sync, BUT syncs the track as 2/3 smaller of the LEAD track.
Secondary function, when SHIFT is being pressed, will sync the track to 3/2 bigger from the LEAD track. Button could be labelled also as ā0.666 SYNCā (and ā1.5 SYNCā as secondary function).
Users could have an option under the userās profile to choose also an option to use instead 3/4 SYNC and 4/3 SYNC for that same button.
It would make open format mixing not just easier, but also next level. DJs like to āfine tune perfect and long transitions with matched keys and suchā¦ā but now open format DJs could also have more perfectionist approach. And the Club DJ-s could use this for those "2/3 echo/roll " transitions to go from house to DnB and such. Denon would be the first to implement this on the hardware as dedicated button.
Right now this could be implemented also to shift + āplus tempo rangeā button and shift + āminus tempo rangeā button, if Pitch Bend is switched off (being on Range option).
That is SOOO COOL! All that SPACE around the faders! Dedicated stems rotary knobs! So we donāt need to mess up our EQ-s with soft takeover madness. Yes Yes Big jogs too! If this should happen, it would NEED to be also maintainable and spare parts should be reachable too. I bet the price would be at least 3500 ā¬ and probably even more. Without maintainability I would not buy.
Wow, Skaratak. Great job and cool ideas! Especially:
Improved Mic section: 2x 3-band EQ, MicFX knob!
Improved global browse and control section, with dedicated View, Menu, Lighting and a Custom/Rec button
DMX output socket
Replace one USB-A with USB-C
Feedback
Yes!! This is my favourite update of your design. If the FX also could further be professionally tweaked on screen that would be great!
Yes, very nice! A suggestion as an option: browsing the active playlist/crate while DJāing in full screen, could be to ādubble hitā the Deck 1-4 buttons on the mixer directly (this could also activate the āSmart Cueā function) or the āBackā button. And add a āSourceā button for the root level to rapidly switch between, Flashdrives, Laptops or Streaming Services. A āFindā button that will bring up the search bar for all sources would be nice as well.
YES! Give us two for both universes. (Now, you can buy 2x USB-dongle if you donāt use 2x LC6000)
Dual USB-C in the back with 60-100w power for b2b HID-mode would be the dream! But still keep the 2x USB-A in the back for LC6000 players and the 2x USB-A on top for flash-drives. Iām a SDXC slot guy though, which I think is the best and premium drive.
I like the features and your thoughts.
I think Prime 4+ is already great for bars, mobile-DJās and second dance-floors. So I would love it if we could design the ultimate centerpiece / mixer / all-in-one controller together mainly for center stage installation. With full-size 6K Jogwheels and hight, build-in lightning control with dual DMX, STEMS, and HID support for Serato/VDJ/Deejay/Engine.
Iām still excited about the dual potentiometers for STEMS and EQ. I still believe that it would be a really handy tool, if size and weight isnāt an issue. An alternative idea is to add kill switches on the lefthand side of each potentiometer with STEMS, but it looked really cluttered.
Put quite some work into this mockup (many hours and thoughts), this is nothing just quickly hacked together in MS Paint. I have missed a few details, but these could still be added:
EFX paddle instead of a button (more fun, more robust, and allows latch & hold)
Stems mode for EQ knobs like you suggested. My shown Stems implementation was just rudimentary, in the meantime things have progressed further, so yeah
I missed the āgrid editā label beneath the slip mode button (just imagine it being there)
Variant: Instead of the āload leftā and āload rightā buttons, I had an alternative design with a slightly different browse section, where each channel would have its own āload channelā. Actually a bit more convenient that way (no need to check which layer 1/3 or 2/4 is active)
Gaianās suggestion with the separate touch strips. Add a toggle for the people who donāt need it, to change some different with that (Stems or EFX stuff maybe)
Expandable feet / option to extend them by 4-5cm in height if needed
If Zone Out is disabled, the EQs should work for the Main signal instead (Booth already has EQ)
We shouldnāt be going to crazy in here, though. A price far above 2500-2700$ will put off many potential buyers. Thatās why my core request is to keep the actual unit size (and with that several existing parts) identical to the current units. For me the Opus and XZ/AZ are too oversized and too heavy. Better for fixed studios, less as mobile workhorses.
Yes! For mobile DJāing Iām perfectly happy with RANE FOUR and as a second unit and for renting out Prime 4+ is also perfect. I think Denon would benefit from a flagship Pro-level controller sc6000 style that is a Opus-Quad done right, thatās my favourite size to work on. And yes, re-use old parts to keep the price down.
Hereās my new take of a dream unit with @Skaratak 's inputs and ideas.
I imagine a unit that can fast switch between Flashdrives, Streaming service and Laptops in HID-mode. Iāve also added a āFindā button if you want to find all songs thatās matches your words on local drives and maybe a single streaming service if itās fast enough.
I never use Zone Out myself, so Iāve put Bluetooth there instead. Loved your idea with controlling the Main Out instead though, but I have dedicated potentiometers for that.
For the next update - I think itās easier if you can put all your focus on the main screen. Therefore I think itās nice to replace FX1&2 with controls for the main screen and accomplish more with that space. Like SoundSwitch controls, or @Gaian Controls strips or Pads as youāve suggested.
My main gripe (since the MC6000 days) is that the mixer section of any controller should have a removable top plate and āclip inā faders. They are easily damaged and itās a nightmare to dismantle the entire unit to get to the mixer board. In the case of the MCX8000 it is hours whether that is done yourself or at a service centre which adds to the cost.
@Skaratak Here my take on each player with itās own browsing/loading knob.
I also imagine using the FX 1+2 sections for STEMS instead of the potentiometers, where Deck 3 & 1 is sharing FX 1 side and Deck 2 & 4 is sharing FX 2 side. Activate on āā°ā button press on channel. This will take advantage of the screens as well. Reset on track load. The FX buttons can be used as Kill Switches for STEMS too and STEMS FX with shift, so Slicer button is back! āFX 1 or 2ā button switches the screen to FX.
Also, this STEMS-Level feature could possibly already be added with a firmware/software update for Prime 4 and plus. Activation by dubble tap on CUE buttons like the Rane Four, maybe.
The arrangement of the pads in 2 x 4 blocks is better, for example to have the upper pad for acapella off and on and the lower pad for acapella echo. You can find the pads more quickly.
And additional buttons for sampler and stams, the double assignment is not so practical.
But Iāve designed this dream unit with the consideration for Denons Pro customers to keep their investment of LC/SC6000 up to date. Iām dreaming of an installation unit to replace x-1850 that goes well with the 6000 players. I think Prime 4+ is Denons best product for the job, but itās designed for Mobile DJās.
I might do a new dream mockup with a new dream single player to replace SC6000 as well with 2x4 pads. I would also like to have an option for a rubber platter instead of Vinyl for better grip. SC6000M if you want the vinyl feel.
Especially:
āFX 1 or 2ā button switches the screen to FX.
