Devices keeping time when switched off

Engine DJ Hardware Standalone Controllers
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1

Am I imagining things, or did our devices keep time when switched off previously? and they no longer do now?

I cant connect to any wifi at my gig and the past few gigs ive noticed the time is all over the place, last night I made a note of it before leaving and sure enough when ive switched it on today at home it is the same time as last night. Its also messed the history up as last nights gig is dated February with a finish time of 4am.

Im certain this never used to happen and the device would keep time when powered down?

Can anyone confirm the behaviour?

2

Maybe the controller has a cmos battery that has died?

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Definitely one thing I was considering, just needed to confirm it is actually meant to be keeping the time and not something I imagined.

4

@STU-C, I assume itā€™s your Prime 2. I couldnā€™t find anything on that. But a search for ā€œCMOS battery Prime 4ā€ gives this AI answer.

The Denon Prime 4, as a standalone DJ system, does not rely on a traditional CMOS battery to retain settings or boot information. Instead, it uses a capacitor bank to maintain power during brief power outages, allowing the system to continue playing and retain settings.

Hereā€™s a more detailed explanation:

  • No CMOS Battery:

Unlike computers or other devices with a CMOS battery, the Denon Prime 4 does not have a small, replaceable battery to power the real-time clock (RTC) and retain BIOS settings.

  • Capacitor Bank:

The Prime 4 utilizes a capacitor bank, which is a type of energy storage device, to provide backup power during short power interruptions.

  • Power Loss Functionality:

When a power outage occurs, the Prime 4ā€™s display will show a ā€œPower Lostā€ message, but the system will continue playing the current track and retain its settings.

  • Data Persistence:

The capacitor bank allows the Prime 4 to maintain its data and settings during brief power outages, preventing potential issues with the databaseIt would make sense to have one to store time and, perhaps, some settings.

Meanwhile, I also looked over parts pictures at instrumentalparts.com and donā€™t see one.

This is where Denon staff need to step in and explain. Iā€™d also like to know in regards to SC6000s.

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5

Cheers man, useful info there. I notice the constant reference to ā€˜brief power outagesā€™ there, no mention of what is powering any kind of data that needs to be retained for long periods.

Does your device maintain the time? I guess people mainly have WiFi connected so not sure anyone would see it.

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Interesting. Youā€™d think it would have updated via WiFi once home.

Never had a problem with time on the SC6000s. They even update to daylight savings times, which must be a result of WiFi. As a test, I turned WiFi off on one SC6000. Unplugged it (while off) and let it sit a while. Correct time when I turned it on later despite no WiFi.

You might do a quick turnaround test to see if the capacitors are not holding any charge at all or are losing it after a certain period. Some hold charges for longer periods than others. Also, does it lose time when off but still plugged in (sans WiFi)?

BTW- AI sometimes gives incorrect answers. But, that answer seems to be based on some solid evidence. Maybe the service manuals are being fed into AI.

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One datapoint: The SC6000 has a CMOS battery.

Left is one with the heat sink removed.

image
image1440Ɨ1083 262 KB

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Sorry I should say, it did update on the wifi, but when I first switched it on the time had frozen at the point I lasted shut it down.

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Iā€™m guessing the same applies for the standalone then. Hopefully someone from InMusic can chime in.

Iā€™m not bothered enough to start unscrewing stuff but it would be interesting to diagnose.

Is it just that Panasonic battery on your picture?

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Thatā€™s good to know. I hate to think how much trouble it will be to replace.

This also means you canā€™t extrapolate between units. Plus, AI could be wrong on the Prime 4 for all we know.

@STU-C, I guess your workaround is to use your phone WiFi at startup. Or, just manually set it.

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Ah see this is the problem, its a 200yr old building so phone signal is absolutely zero, I have to use their public wifi to text people, but its one of those with the shell screen you have to agree to before connecting.

12

itā€™s a huge pain!

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13

Yes, it looks like a CR2032 battery. I got that image from an electronics repair shopā€™s instagram page.

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14

is that similar to an old calculator battery then? or would it be soldered in?

15

Yeah, and very common as a watch battery too. Itā€™s held in by a spring retention clip it looks like.

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16

Cheers manā€¦ definitely not something I can be bothered digging in to change I dont think. I bet itā€™s not easily accessible from the bottom panel either.

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Likely not. Only way to tell is to open it up. :frowning:

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Typically, these batteries are not soldered to the board, they are held by a clip ā€¦ changing the battery is easy, I have done this with several synths ā€¦ but taking an SC6000M apart to change the battery is something Iā€™m not exactly looking forward to :confused: ā€¦

At least these batteries are not prone to acid leakage like the evil junk that has been soldered into the Cheetah MS-6 and the Korg Polysix ā€¦ here is a video link where a new clone board with a CR2032 battery is installed into a Polysix, you can see the battery clip:

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Cheers manā€¦ yeah im not going to risk it, I can live without a clock to be honest.

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Itā€™s always best to replace old batteries, not just to keep the clock running, but also to prevent leakage. CR2032 batteries are relatively safe, but a dead battery can increase the risk of issues. I prefer to keep my equipment up to date with fresh batteries. Fire hazards from old lithium batteries are no joke! :grimacing:

I didnā€™t realize the SC6000 has an internal battery. :confused: In most synth manuals, this is mentioned somewhere because changing the internal battery usually wipes the memory, deleting stored patterns and patches ā€¦ we must export them first ā€¦

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