What is the feature or ability you would like to have?
Hello all, I have a PRIME 4 that I purchased about 6 months ago and haven’t had the opportunity to delve into it until recently. I am using it with Virtual DJ because of the need for a flexible dj platform that will allow certain VERY NEEDED features when using .mp4’s and I have not found ANY other software that can provide that. I am using it with windows 11 i9 maxed 64GB RAM 2 GEN 4 NVME DRIVES and a 12GB VRAM NVIDIA 3080.
This issue I am having is glitches with the AUDIO stream only! I have tried every workaround under the sun to resolve this and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING works…the glitches “may” go away for a short period, but ALWAYS returns before long…usually under an hour. I have connected several external audio cards such as Focusrite 4i4 using its own ASIO and wa-la ZERO problems. This had led me to the conclusion that the Denon ASIO driver has either been poorly developed OR has become FAR outdated and now is virtually USELESS. I would hate to believe that Denon and its affiliated partners/ owners would allow such an expensive piece of gear and its devoted used to be left hanging! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE someone…ANYONE look into this and allow us to be happy and promoting Denon fans/ users by updating the ASIO driver that works as consistently and reliably as the Pioneer or Focusrite ASIO drivers! Thank you! I will be EAGERLY awaiting some type of rectification!
Thank you responding SlayForMoney!
YES, and its basically the same with ASIO4ALL & WASAPI drivers, along with an unacceptable degradation in audio quality.
I’m not a software writer. However, the only conclusion I keep ending up with is the Denon ASIO driver needs to be updated so it can stream the audio without conflics with other newer windows component drivers like NVIDIA graphic drivers and ACPI.SYS ect. The conflics cause latency spikes and other issues resulting in disruption in the stream(NOISE)
We’ll if you have the same issue when you are not using the Denon asio driver (and asio4all and win wasapi drivers are not denon’s) then…logic tells you the issue is not in the Denon drivers.
Run a latencymon or a similar program to identify what process is causing the realtime audio to be interrupted in win. Usually, when degradation in audio happens after an certain time of playback it’s a cooling issue (heat builds up, OS shuts down some of the CPU cores to cool things down).
Thanks again Slay!
I’m not sure if I’m explaining it clearly. I do not have the issue with ANY other quality ASIO driver such as The Focusrite ASIO when using the external device as the audio converter as opposed to the sound converters built into the Prime 4, in which the Denon Windows ASIO driver 1.0.2, which is several years old.
I have been through EVERY posted and conceivable “fix” I could find or reason about!
Latency Mon has consistently pointed high DPC latencies with freshly updated NVIDIA and sytem updates. Of course Windows has always been an unpredictable platform because of the MANY third parties who either write poorly developed drivers OR just simply updating older ones that dont mesh well with the always updating windows environment.
There is zero issue with system resources or heat!
I have a couple of other controllers and mixers, Rane & Pioneer which also use thier own ASIO drivers. There is zero issues with any of them. I just would rather get some use out of the Prime 4 when using .MP4’s.
Thanks again✌🏾
Pointed to where, what processes?
If you set your VDJ audio output to WASAPI or ASIO4ALL drivers (that would mean Denon ASIO drivers are NOT USED), to what processes is Latency Mon pointing as the culprit of hight latency?
Also, have you tried rolling back the win updates? There were several cases of those breaking stuff with regards to audio.
Another troubleshooting point - do any of your other hardware has screens that are used by VDJ? If not, might be worth checking GPU drivers etc
Hello Slay, again, I apologize for the possible confusion.
The ASIO4ALL & WASAPI drivers DO NOT have the same issue as do the Denon ASIO drivers.
They are absolutely not an option for me because they both have completely unacceptable sound quality compared to a good working ASIO driver, so I am not considering using either…just ASIO.
As previously mentioned, Latency Mon is pointing towards several processes that show high Latency ONLY when the Prime 4’s ASIO drivers are being used. It seems as though the conflics are primarily with ACPI.SYS and the NVIDIA drivers. These two issues DO NOT cause high Latency when using the Focusrite, Rane or Pioneer ASIO drivers…just the Denon ASIO driver.
Rolling back windows updates or switching versions such as Windows 10, has NO benefit.
Thanks again
Hello PKthe DJ, the reason I am “assuming” that my problem lies with Denon’s ASIO is because I have zero issues when using any other ASIO driver such as the Focusrite’s ASIO, when using the Scarlett 4i4 as the sound card opposed to the Prime 4’s internal sound card with the Denon ASIO driver. I also have zero issues when using Pioneer or Rane components with VDJ, the same laptop and configuration. Again please note, the sound issues do not show up immediately using the Prime 4 with its ASIO so it is possible that some users may not notice or have the issue pending on what drivers they are utilizing under thier particular hardware configuration. These disruptions occur and get worse after an undetermined time of usage. This DOES not happen when using the other ASIO drivers as mentioned. Another VERY important note is since Denon has discontinued the Prime 4, it has NOT updated its ASIO for several years, the only updates have been for the “Engine OS” bug fixes and improvements. NOTHING for years with keeping up with the primes internal hardware and possible conflicts that could arise from the constantly changing software environment of Windows or other hardware used in connected laptops.
Thank you for your reply!
Give this a try. Remember to check these setting every second Tuesday of the month, that’s the major Windows update day.
In Windows (doesn’t matter what version), go into Settings>Device Manager>expand Universal Serial Bus controllers, right-click USB Root Hub, and then select Properties. In the USB Root Hub Properties (check other USB devices as well) dialog box, select the Power Management tab. And make sure the “Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power” check box is UNCHECKED. Common issue for USB audio devices on Windows (like since the 90’s), this causes so many problems.
Hello djdragon, I couldn’t agree more with all you stated and thank you for your interest! I had been away from using ANYTHING windows and strictly in MACOS for all of my performing gear. However, a couple of the smaller MGM lounges decided to have us DJ’s start VJ’n. So I decided to get a very equipped PC laptop with a RTX 3080 to handle the video requirements for Resolume Arena and a couple of proprietary video FX programs. The laptop is EASILY handling all the programs as well as VDJ with real time stem processing enabled and the CPU, GPU & RAM usage rarely hits 30-35%.
I have went through as many of the hundreds of “workarounds” that fit my issue…to include ALL of the power related settings…ect.
There is zero issues with video. Also as mentioned, whenever I connect my 2 deck PIONEER RX3 or Rane rotary MP 2014 or 2015 to the same computer there is zero audio OR video issues either! Also as mentioned, when I use a scarlett 4i4 as the sound card for the denon Prime 4…NO ISSUES! The Prime functions as it should in ALL aspects except when using its internal converters with Denon’s Windows ASIO driver! There are no buffer settings that eliminate this issue either. This leads me to assume that the OUTDATED Denon ASIO is the culprit. Sure I could use the Pioneer, and leave the Prime to sit around and gather dust…I’m already VERY DISAPPOINTED that Denon has decided to discontinue and basically abandon the Prime when I purchased it new about 6-7 months ago. If someone from Denon or its affiliates doesn’t come forward soon and at least look at and address thier users concerns even on this forum…I will NEVER SUPPORT OR RECOMMEND ANOTHER DENON DJ product as long as I have the ability to! Thank you again djdragon!
You should have mentioned that from the start, this is the important part.
Seems to me you are “judging a fish based on it’s ability to climb a tree”…or maybe a better comparison: “judging a race car driver based on it’s performance in Gran Turismo 7”? Doesn’t matter, you get it…
I agree with you that Denon does not put enough effort into driver development (and keeping it up to date), my opinion is it’s because the focus is on the standalone aspect of the hardware. Maybe a better choice for you would have been a controller?
If you came here just to vent your anger and rant, it would be nice to tell everybody because no, expectation that someone from Denon support will reach out to you and send you a updated driver for Prime 4 is unrealistic. (Denon, prove me wrong)
Btw, do you have any objective proof that Prime 4 has a “completely unacceptable sound quality” with ASIO4ALL or WASAPI drivers? Like, can you record it from the RCA’s of Prime4? I would be interested in hearing it.
Slay? In all do respect! I have mentioned that in one way or the other with almost EVERY post! If you would kindly go back & read from the beginning, you might figure that out. No, I dont “get” your comparisons. Also, I DO NOT go anywhere or through life complaining or venting without exhausting everything I can possibly offer to help resolve the issue that I seek assistance with! YES, it does get a bit frustrating when I purchase gear at that price point and find out that its manufacturer “barely” supports it AND doesn’t put more effort into its vital drivers. As far as recording “proof”…for what? Test it yourself. It’s a KNOWN fact that ASIO4ALL is more useful for testing if there is a problem with your sound devices native ASIO driver. It has poor latency, and its not even a true ASIO driver…it only “mimicks” ASIO and then “wraps around” WDM so that a device or DAW sees it…then it hands the audio stream back to your built in windows sound card. I have NO idea as to what your sound quality needs are…but for me, I absolutely need the highest quality and lowest latency possible. That is normally available in any well written ASIO driver. With WASAPI, there is no way to set buffer sizes to lower latency. When using WASAPI with Prime 4 and virtual DJ, the lowest latency I could achieve was around 20ms. I work in a VERY critical market (MGM Resorts Las vegas) with VERY critical and precise Sound Systems. Trust me or test it yourself…there is NO better driver for lowest latency and sound quality than the Native true ASIO that is designed properly and specifically written for its specific hardware!
Here is a very informative article (there are MANY) that “may” be suffice for your “proof”… too funny!
Firstly, on writing posts on the forum, you don’t need to capitalise what you feel are key words or words that need to ‘grab attention’… it just makes the overall experience of reading your posts much more difficult, hence why it’s never taught in English lessons at School.
On your issue, if you simply bullet point your setup, including device, cables, which port you’re connecting from, VDJ version, windows version, driver version and anything else that may be useful… most importantly the detail of the issue and what exactly is happening, preferably with some kind of video displaying the problem.
Someone from the test team or a more tech savvy forum member may be able to try and replicate it so they can get to the bottom of what is happening.
Just a final point, you have to understand that the absolute main focus of the Prime devices is to use them in standalone mode, the integration of Virtual DJ I imagine is of little importance to the company as it’s an almost niche use case, so histrionics about how the company need to jump right on it yesterday so they don’t lose your custom are perhaps a little ill advised in this particular case.
Hello Stu-C, thank you for your reply.
Points taken. In hindsight, I can see how my frustration level has overpowered a bit of my rationale. So I would like to apologize to the members of the forum. Firstly, to the members who attemted to assist me. And secondly, to anyone who was annoyed by my approach to solving my issue.
At this point, I am going to thank the community and accept the points that were made.
Since InMusic/Denon has the mentioned philosophy about the Prime 4 being primarily used as a stand-alone unit, therefore neglecting some of the vital developments (drivers) that are a integral part of its hardware. Why “bait” buyers by openely marketing its immense ability to be used with other platforms when it can not at a consistent professional level? I am assuming because of its failure to keep its drivers updated and fully compatible with a ever changing software environment. I am very “tech savvy”(not a software writer) and have tried every possible “fix” to this issue using my knowledge and every bit of knowledge I could research to include purchasing very expensive USB cables to rule out manufacturing flaws that could hinder the transfer of such large amounts of data between the hardwares.
Conclusion. Denon makes competitive, well built and potentially industry standard equipment, but falls short of the type of “developments” required to be an indusrty leader, especially if they are leaving thier multi-faceted users short handed! Apologies and thank you to everyone who reached out! &
Sorry for your issues. I’m Mac-based so can’t offer advice. I just wonder with the Prime 4+ release if the ASIO driver might get updated and be backwards compatible.
Hey hello Androphonic, thanks for the understanding. Yes I was 100% Mac and virtually trouble free. However, as I stated, a few small lounges required music videos and although I have not looked into the latest MB Pros, my video processing requirements are pretty demanding so Ive put myself back at the mercy of WinBlows! Love the Core concept with Mac!
I didn’t even know about a Prime 4+?
I have however, noticed that Denon tends to develop hardware that reaches certain hardware limits during thier design process that seems not to be able to simply be fixed with firmware updates…but my fingers will be crossed…but I will not hold my breath…also will not but another piece of Denon gear anytime soon or perhaps ever! Thanks again!
Androphonic, again thanks for the Prime 4+ tip!
I did watch the reputable link below and they stated that Denon did let them in on “hints” that the plus has significant hardware upgrades internally that have not been released to the public yet…like something BIG that only the plus will be capable of. My guess is that it may include either video or something to improve on thier very problematic tranfer of the LARGE amounts of data between the unit and connected laptops. BTW I had thier latest mixe and motorized decks which were very expensive and data between the denon decks and mixer to most if not all connected laptops had the most unusable latency I have ever experienced. Sometimes taking several minutes to update between the screens on the deck and connected software…more obvious design issues…that leave users with a hit or miss very expensive dilemma!
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