Sync is off 90% of the time

Hi guys,

I’ve purchased 2 x sc5000’s and i love them. BUT… Whenever i want to use sync (for radioshows i like everything to be very tight and clean) it just doesn’t seem to get it right. I always have to pitch bend a bit slower or a bit faster to get it right on the kick.

I’ve been using pioneer & traktor for a long time, and coming from this great quantization software, this, for me is an absolute disappointment.

I really don’t want to sell these players, but if i can’t get this fixed this leaves me with no other option.

Does anyone have these same problems?

Thanks in advance!

Nope, can’t say I have.

Are you ensuring all your music is analysed correctly and you’re setting cue points in the right place? Also timing the play button hit correctly?

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Hi mate.

Yes, this happens when both tracks are analysed correctly and are quantized exactly to the beat.

Could it be something in the settings?

I’m really desperate for a solution! :pray:

Have you got some example tracks and can you share screen shots of the waveforms etc.

Edit: some video footage of it misaligned would be useful too.

Hi Larsson

No software really has a perfect analysis with a rate of 100% on every track that could exist. A lot of factors can influence the analysis, is the bpm constant, is it a track ripped from vinyl, is it a particular genre (drum & bass, etc).

EngineOS has a fairly high analysis success rate, and is probably one of the most effective analyses, along with Traktor and Virtual DJ, of 4/4 rhythms. Even Virtual DJ fails on some tracks to adjust the grid perfectly and you sometimes have to adjust it by hand, even though it’s one of the programs with the best rhythmic analysis algorithm.

It’s true that Traktor’s algorithm is one of the best and most efficient, but believe me there are far worse than Engine DJ for rhythmic analysis.

Rekordbox is much worse.

Adjusting the bending is an integral part of the DJ’s work in cases where the analysis is not perfect. You shouldn’t be lazy and rely entirely on the machine and expect it to do everything for you. Automatic synchronisation should be seen as an aid and an assistance, not as a substitute for human work, which works every time.

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The new system used by Algoriddim Djay Pro (Fluid Beatgrid) is amazing when it comes to aligning the grid to the actual tempo when it varies.

Courtesy of auftakt by zplane I believe, so it’s something Denon could integrate too (please!).

There’s a small demo app you can download on the zplane site, that allows you to load in a track of your choice, which it will then analyse and you can play through it with a metronome click.

Moin @larsson,

did you try to amend your “faulty” track manually by droping anchor and adjusting bpm? Mostly you can improve your transitions.

And as @Gaian advised

is an auxiliaries and not a substitute for DJ’s proficiencies.

Btw.: It’S a never ending story …

Good luck and enjoy the day

BeatMaster

To comment on something different, do you have the quantization turned on? Have you tried the same track on both decks? That would give information about whether it is a problem with the analysis or not.

You can also check if you have had the analysis done before any of the latest updates (I don’t remember if it was in 3.0 when they improved the analysis of the songs and recommended reanalyzing the library)… let us know, greetings

Did you convert from RB or Traktor? Or did you analyze your whole library again in Engine?

@larsson

You said you had sc5000s.

You should know that if they are 5000m, the grease in the motors may be needs replacing, which could also be the cause of your synchronisation problems.

In fact, the original grease in the 5000m motors tends to harden over time, which causes the motor to slow down abnormally.

The most common symptoms are a slower than normal reading speed when the ambient temperature is cold and when the motors are cold. The phenomenon tends to diminish after 20 minutes of use, once the motors have run smoothly and the grease has warmed up.

You can do a simple test to see if your problem is linked to used grease if you’re using 5000Ms.

Load a track on one of your SC5000Ms with the motor deactivated and play it, then do a double instant on the other SC5000 with the motor activated and see if the two tracks desynchronise.

Do the same test with the two players reversed, as it could be that only one of your player has ageing grease.

If you have a non-M SC5000 you are not affected by this grease problem and please disregard this comment.

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Hi guys,

So i think i know what the problem is. I think i just need more detailed waveforms to put the cue on exactly the same spots on the kick. Where do you guys always put your cue? A bit before the kick? always on the highest point of the kick? If this varies it’s gonna sound a bit off. I’m confident it doesn’t desynchronise, but i am sure we need more detail in the waveforms!

Anyone agree?

Thanks for all your replies btw!

I just do it in engine, i tried converting from RB but that didn’t go so well, i had to reanalize 50% of my tracks.

I use the platter to scratch in the beat until I think it sounds right then place the cue point on that point. I’ll also usually place my first hot cue there (unless there is an interlude then I’ll use the 2nd one) as this allows me to restart the track without cue/play mashing, prolonging the life of both buttons.

Moin @larsson,

it’s not easy to advise in general.

I always use my ears and my feeling for the rhythm, to insert the cue or a hot cue; to drop anchor as well. When I detected this point, I’ll amend the grid if necessary.

You are always on the safe side, if you set hot cue / drop anchor at the beginning of a new cadence. Sometimes you can anticipate this point and sometimes you have to listen more than four times … (e.g. “Cpt. Boogie” by Wardell Piper —easy, after the break and if you disregard 6/4—; “Shame” by Evelyn Champagne King or “le freak —>freak out” /“good times” by CHIC difficult when you want to loop)

It needs a lot of experience to hit the right spot / moment for a hot cue or to drop anchor. Mostly it depends on the composer, where to hit / drop.

To drop anchor on the peak of the bass may be proper in track A, could be absolutly wrong in track B. There may be the peak of the heights the proper spot or phps between middle and height.

Happy training and enjoy, but don’t give up

Brgds BeatMaster

My sync on 90% of the time :laughing: and that means mastering beat grid editing. All my DnB tracks are set exactly the same, just before the beat. My Techno tracks are set on the beat. Anything else like House and Disco, I just edit to match the previous track in a set and adjust my cue points.