I used to be a fan of lightroom, but I gave up after the subscription nonsense. Google photo edits do most of what I need anyway.
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I managed to get a perpetual Capture One license for just over £100 and i just use that now, with Affinity photo for any cloning etc. no way am i paying monthly to edit them.
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Serato have hidden their outright purchases of some packs and highlighted their subscriptions. IIRC you can get to the separate items but via a link that a forum user found.
It’s what stopped me from getting Lexicon. I’d have paid outright for that specific version number up to V2 or V3 but lose any further updates as they move up a major version number. Sometimes I can live with the older version if it does what I need. Ableton Live and HeavyM are two examples.
If anyone’s circumstances allow the ongoing subscription to software then that’s absolutely fine. For some it’s definitely a turn off and would always want the option of an outright purchase.
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It’s the same problem with soundswitch.
It’s currently the simplest solution for creating light shows quickly, and of the two mixers I use neither is an x1800 or x1850 (and given the reliability problems with these mixers I’ll pass).
So I need a computer running soudswitch permanently to know the position of the faders via midi.
For the moment I’m using the trial months supplied with the soundswitch adapter but then I’ll have to decide between a monthly subscription and a licence purchase because the soundswitch licence purchase doesn’t seem to include major updates and so I’ll have to buy a new licence when 3.x is released.
When I see that there are publishers/developers who have always offered perpetual licences such as Image-Line (FL studio) or Atomix (Virtual DJ) and that this is still the case, I tell myself that it was much better before. Does this mean that these publishers are in financial difficulty? I don’t think so. Image Line and atomix sell their software by millions. So yes, the licence can be expensive to buy, sometimes a few hundred dollars/euros. But it’s so much more profitable over time than these subscription systems.
Imagine I bought virtual DJ in December 2003, the day it was released, for the modest sum of 15€ (launch offer). And I’ve always had all the free updates since then. This represents an annual usage cost of 72 cents.
Today the infinity licence is sold for 344 €, imagine you use it for 20 years, that gives you an annual cost of 17.2 € / year or 1.43 € / month. Multiply by 4 if you only use it for 5 years.
They also sell their monthly subscription to virtual DJ pro at €22/month. You take out 16 consecutive months of subscription and you’ve paid for the licence, and the software still doesn’t belong to you. I think the math is pretty simple. I’d definitely prefer to buy the licence.
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Logic on iPad is one of the few positive exceptions where I am fine with a subscription. $49/year equals $4 per month, for a really powerful DAW on the go. The hardware (iPad Pro) is expensive, but only if you buy the newest. If you own an iPad anyway, getting Logic as almost a no-brainer if you’re interested in producing.
Then I look at stuff like Serato, Lexicon, the new Tidal DJ-tier, or some random calendar/weather/calculator apps, and I can only shake my head. Those are price models I will not support.
I was kinda lucky, back then when I got Serato P’n’T for $19 discount (one-time) and it proved to be helpful over the years, combined with the SDJ Pro unlock hardware, which I basically still own (Live4, Prime4). But I simply do no longer need and want a laptop in my both, hence Engine alone does the job.
Concerning the discussion here: Yeah, it could need a faster development pace, and the option to use it in a kind of performance mode would be really cool for the Numark entry-level controllers and similar, to expand the eco-system and lower the entry barrier. Until then, most hobby DJs will start with a FLX4, because most YT channels recommend it as entry point to become a ‘club-standard Pro-DJ’ one day, or whatever… but for my personal use-case, I am >80% happy with the current state of Engine (90% of the OS, 70% for the Desktop).
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ive only dabbled with Logic a bit, i keep trying to find more time to get into production, but the thing i found really useful was that companion app for the ipad where you can play the keys etc.
If i was into it properly id be paying that monthly fee for it all day long though, an actual useful piece of software. Luckily i was able to buy the education pack for my mac with logic and final cut for £300, it also has some graphic design apps etc in there.
Serato have gone in the deep end with their pricing, im like you with managing to get the bolt ons for like £20 each back in the day, Pitch N Time, and FX pack and the club pack.
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I don’t find it ridiculous at all, you either innovate, copy and keep with the trending features, or be left behind like Traktor.
It’s “funny” but the only feature that keeps me using Denon is that it uses crates instead of playlists. But man, do I miss everything else about Pioneer:
- Colors
- Tags
- Track linking
- A working play count that can be used to sort or generate smart playlists
- The better filter options for the players – Now they even sort the recently added tracks by month (I used to do this manually or with smart playlists)
The Opus Quad has the same loop encoder and beat jump buttons as Denon hardware. (Another reason I switched to Denon over a year ago)
“Denon” hasn’t used crates instead of playlists since Firmware 1.6, it’s now on 3.4…. This might also explain your lack of understanding around what other features are now available on the Engine platform, and how laptop performance software is different to standalone player firmware.
If you can’t see the multitude of other features being offered by the Engine platform over the Rekordbox platform then I’m afraid none of us can help you. (Although again it looks like you’re still using 1.6 so you’re not seeing any of them)
As far as Traktor goes, it still has an extremely loyal fan base who enjoy its well worked and stable software.
Maybe I’m wrong, but from my understanding, the differences between crates and playlists are:
- In a playlist you can have a track multiple times, which you can’t do in crates.
- You can stack crates, the root crate will show all tracks from all the crates inside the root. With playlists it doesn’t work this way, you put them in folders, but the folders don’t show the tracks from all the playlists.
Now please give me your definition of a crate vs a playlist.
And yes, I see all the features and use them as well.
I use engine lighting just because it’s there and fun, I have it connected to the club’s lights and smoke machine and everything, but this wasn’t a necessity
I’m connected to Tidal but rarely use it.
The Bluetooth feature is implemented better by AlphaTheta, at least you can control the track 
And the arguments of how we are all comparing standalone preparation with performance software don’t really fit. What performance feature did I mention? Because the way I see it, I was talking strictly about library management.
You said
Which would imply you’re talking about far more than just library management, backtracking now?
On a single product.
You’re talking about filtering on the players.
It’s irrelevant as to what the differences are, crates are no longer a thing in Engine, it’s playlists or nothing from version 2.0 onwards. You said Crates are the only thing keeping you with Denon, as per your comment above, so you’re either using version 1.6 or being disingenuous in your comments.
I see a recurring thing on this forum, in one corner people wanting more from Denon because they’re passionate about the brand, and in the other corner, a few people which only present excuses and jump at our necks for every suggestion or constructive criticism.
There’s no way you are missing the point this much.
You implied that filters on the players are related to rekordbox performance mode and that I was backtracking.
Also, denying that they are crates, even though they work more like crates and less like playlists, I really don’t know what to say about your angle here. (Btw, I’m on 3.4 fyi, but I feel like you were pretending just for argue’s sake)
The SC Live 4 is our most recommend console for our students (I’m a dj tutor) with at least 3 purchased by some in the last few months, so I’m more on Denon’s side than pioneer, but recently pioneer/AlphaTheta is catching up with the Denon features. And it does get a bit frustrating when you like a brand and see it evolving at a snail’s pace. And the excuses and pretending that everything is the way it should be, it’s more frustrating.
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This shows nothing more than level of utter delusion going on inside your head.
You think that claiming only one feature is what keeps you using the equipment, otherwise you would move to Pioneer is constructive criticism, it’s beyond hilarious.
Just like matey boy above, you’re nothing more than another poorly disguised Pioneer fanboy, who has created an account here to make snarky comments (we can see your comment history, just an FYI).
As far as how passionate you think I am about helping this brand develop, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
However, someone disagreeing with you, or having a different pov from you, does not simply mean that they’re missing the point.
Now, can we kleep it a bit more civilized? This isn’t really helpful either…
I checked his profile and couldn’t really find anything serious implying him being a Pioneer fanboy or troll. Just as some people on this forum are overly negative about pretty much anything, some other people are overly defensive, when legtimie criticism pops up. None of that is good.
Don’t get me wrong, I also don’t want Engine to become a perfect RB clone, but there are indeed some crucial features which are still lacking, and it is not just me or him saying that, neutral reviewers, youtubers and blogs also state negative points. Mainly library and track organization related. Like tags, star ratings, more powerful [smart] filters, linking/matching of tracks which work together well. No option to change the default colors of the Hot Cues. Slow export times, sometimes database issues, red tracks. Scrolling glitches on MacOS with the MX Master mouse also still persist. Stuff like that. The desktop software simply needs some more polishing, I think we can all agree on that. It has developed well since 2017, but has always lagged behind the system on the decks.
Indeed, crates are gone for good since 2.0 and I am really glad about that, playlists vs crates was confusing. Having playlists alone is fine.
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The point is, lacking features should be addressed as such entirely within the Engine ecosystem and not boil down to this childish imaginary race that people like to invent in their heads where a brand is always lagging behind, losing the race etc.
Engine doesn’t need to compare itself to anything else, they are building it as its own individual ecosystem.
What these people fail to realise (or do realise and actually just thrive on it) is this comparison of who is ‘winning the day’ ends up just being an endless loop each time some minor feature is added to either piece of equipment… its essentially generating internet traffic out of nothing, and its perpetual because as soon as the next brand updates something, suddenly the others are all ‘lagging behind’ waffle waffle waffle.
That depends on a persons perspective as is the case with practically any topic
Not sure if asked yet but has anyone tried exporting the RB 7 collection and importing into Engine DJ yet? Any issues?
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