Yes, I know there is the enginedj software, but this is really cumbersome to transfer files with. I have a huge nicely sorted directory-structure already, and I’d like to just copy that onto the internal SSD in my Prime 4+.
I can connect it with the blue USB wire to my (Windows) PC, but I do not see a Denon drive anywhere in my Windows, I do see a lot of Prime devices under “Bluetooth and other devices”, but nothing like an MTP USB drive or anything I can mount as a drive to move files to. Honestly, with a product line as large and as historic (by now) I’m honestly astonished that such functionality does not seem to be there.
Is denon really saying I always need to use enginedj software to move files towards that drive? And how or where do I even see that those files are actually ON that storage medium in the bottom of the Prime 4+ and not on an USB-flash-drive or SD-card also plugged in?
Seems like basic functionality to me, yet it seems to not exist, or am I missing something?
Just a simply file manager would do. Or at the very least a drive that could appear in Windows when I plug the blue USB wire in, so I can see dirs to put files in directly, without having to use some virtual shield over it. Yes, I understand denon needs to collect the analysis data and bind it to the files, but it can still do that, even if I write/add new files to the internal SSD, I fail to see why that would be a problem…
I do not have a Prime 4+, but if I want to see the internal SSD of my SC6000M players in Windows explorer, I have to reboot the player in Computer Mode … then the drive shows up. There should be a little computer icon for this on the screen of the Engine OS, probably next to the WiFi icon. Have you tried this?
My workflow is different, I do not copy the files onto the internal drives directly, but I use the Sync Manager in Engine DJ Library. I keep my files on an external drive, there I have a nice folder structure … on the players I do not care about the folders, I use only the playlists, which reflect the folder structure of my external drive. So I cannot really say anything about the direct file transfer …
For me i am using the sync manager too, i keep my music files and folders organized very well on my laptop. The drive thats installed on my SC6000 is synced via playlists and likewise i dont really care how that music is organized as its really just a “copy” what i already have on my laptop. Adding music files directly to the drive i could image could be an issue as im sure that Denon wants to be able read the files/folders a certain way to speed up the process of file location. I would suggest trying it thru the sync manager and see if it works for you.
I can understand, why someone would want to transfer the files directly and let the unit analyse them … because that is what I had in mind too when I bought my first player … But then I gave Engine DJ a chance and it was much better than expected and in my opinion more convenient than the direct transfer of files. The software is not just a way to transfer tracks and playlists, it is now my central library and I love it.
One of the reasons for my change of mind is that I use several other programs for the preparation of new tracks. Having Engine DJ open and working from there made things easier and more direct for me. I have a central place for my playlists and my collection, I can select which part of it I want to send to each player, that is not so bad …
When you start your unit there should be the installed drive visible as a source with the name that you gave it during formatting. Select it, there should be a folder icon in the side menu … I just made a quick test and copied a test folder and a track to the player in computer mode, the folder and the track showed up in standalone mode.
If the drive does not show up, it may not be properly installed or formatted. When I installed the SSD drives in the players, I had to format them using the Disk Manager in Windows … maybe you missed a step here and that is why the drive does not show up?
When you switch the controller to Computer Mode with the Blue Cable all the drives connected on the player will appear in My Computer / This PC. SSDs, SDs, USBs all. From there you can simply copy and paste or drag and drop files and folders to the drive (autonomous player). However, a word of warning - if the drive was prepared using Engine Desktop, you must make changes in Engine Desktop and do a fresh export or you will corrupt the database.
I did finally find the drive, but only under Disk settings in Windows. And it had to be formatted from there. I’m not used to that having to be the premise with devices like this; Usually hardware containing an SSD/HDD formats everything you screw inside of it, so I expected that denon would already have formatted it…
Still, I would prefer an option to store the files in my own directory structure on the SSD, not have enginedj do the sorting part for me in teh background. It has sorted files in a really strange way, using ID3 tags and such, when I look at the drive from within Windows I see it all under the drive here;
z:\Engine Library\Music
it’s a total mess. It really has not understood anything about the filenames and how I had them sorted before syncing them using enginedj. Sadly, I see no way to improve on that.
it seems to me like you’ve skipped over (or maybe assumed?) one key fact, which is that the P4 will erase the drive.
this is not true.
the way I prepared my P4+ and SSD was to install the drive in an external case (you could put it inside your PC too) and load all the songs onto the drive from the computer, using the correct file structure (all that’s required is that it’s in a folder called Engine Library… I just followed the instructions that are posted on this site)
so this is a way to get the folders the way you want them without having to touch the EngineDJ software before having music on your P4.
thing is, if you do start using the EngineDJ software it will put the analyzed files where it wants to put them…
OH also I wouldn’t recommend using the drive inside the P4 as your main directory of music… because if anything happens to it, your whole database is corrupted… This happened to me but it was an easy fix because I had all my music already on my computer so I made the computer my main directory and I now transfer files to the P4’s internal drive through the software. (I know thats not how you wanna do it but its the safest way.)
The directory structure on the internal drive does not need to mirror the layout you’ve created on your computer. To the Prime 4+ your directory structure is irrelevant.
You don’t search for tracks on the hardware by directory navigation. The system uses a database. The database needs to be created by the desktop software.
Follow the instructions in the manual. Import your library to Engine DJ, let it create the database, then export your collection to the Prime 4+ drive.
Maybe some DJs prefer a kind of oldschool approach without another layer of software like Engine DJ, just direct transfer of files and folders.
I organise the files in my collection in folders too. And in the beginning I too thought that this is all I would need. But I have quickly changed my mind, since playlists are much more versatile. Playlists allow me to organise the same tracks in different contexts. I can have a playlist of tracks from the Axis label, a playlist for each separate release on Axis, a playlist with all tracks done by Jeff Mills, whether on Axis or not, and playlists for every digital set that I have ever played.
@DeJulius It is good that you have found out how to make the drive available. When I installed the drives in my players I had to use the Disk Managment too. I agree that the folder structure on the drive is a little strange, but I think that it is not created for human consumption, since playlists are a much better and versatile approach to organising music.
You can have your music files and folders at one place, like an external SSD drive. In Engine DJ, you can mirror the directory/folder structure with playlists. Export the parts of your collection that you want as playlists to your player, there you will see the playlists that mirror your original folder structure. And in Engine DJ, you can create additional playlists, that go beyond the systematic of your original folder structure … it is actually something that can take our library and sorting to another level.
I do not have an answer to the problem how to sort and organise music files, everything is intertwingled … but having the possibility to organise by several categories through playlists is really nice!
Hi
Moving files is child’s play with EngineDj without losing any data or directory structure. I do it in the following way. I create a directory on my laptop with songs, then I run EngineDj and connect it in Prime controller mode. Then I create a directory with the same name on Prime’s internal drive. Then I add the directory from the laptop to the collection and analyze it, then select all the songs and drag them to the directory on the Prime disk and by theme. I do this because I also use other controllers and software and I always have access to my songs in the same structure.
I fail to see how you would call this “child’s play”, looks like double the work that would have been required if the P4 would simply read the folder from the SSD and analyze them from there as is. The way it is now the P4 still creates something you will not see in the enginedj software, it links files you have not actually put in the folders you see in EngineDJ’s sync layout. You only see the virtual display of a total mess it has created on that internal SSD, with some directories containing thousands, and some just a few files, which is detrimental to search/access time for the P4. It’s this last bit that has me worried, the way the P4 now organizes its actual audio-files on this SSD is not efficiently designed;
As far as I can tell it tries to derive an ‘Album’ name from ID3 or other tag inside your audio-file, and then creates a dir with that Album name, and puts the file under that dir. The problem with this is that it fully depends on existence and naming schemes of tagged audio-files. All the untagged ones end up in 1 dir, which makes it really illogical. Worse, I’ve discovered it actually leaves the files in the already existing structure it created, even after you’ve tagged files with Album names, re-synced them to the P4 and have the files overwritten. Honestly, the one behind this database linking structure was not thinking it through very well.
Sure, it works, but it’s just not logical or efficient;
You could also analyze audiofiles from ANY existing directory structure and stop moving files/data around to have them match with your self-invented structure. I really fail to see the advantage for anyone, not even for the P4, to re-invent a folder-structure if the only reason for that is in order to have your database, which is separate from that folder-structure, point towards audio-files on that SSD. Needless writing to SSD should be minimized so it lasts longer, plus searching for files (by the database) should be as efficient as possible, i.e. by having audio-files separated by existing directories.
Last but not least, even software like enginedj could work more fluently by syncing an actual directory structure, not a virtual one. Not to mention the fact that if you want to create a safety backup of the internal SSD content, you will have to double the data yet again, while the SSD itself already is a backup of the ‘synced’ folders from your computer/laptop! Seriously, it’s so weird to even call it “syncing” while it fails to do anything remotely close to it. It syncs with database pointers, not with actual files. This way nobody really knows if files have actually been synced or not, because the dir structure is a completely invisible one for the user.
Hi. It is clear from your statement that you did not read the topic of the post or understand my statement. I don’t use synchronization because I don’t need it to be happy. I showed my friend a child’s play way of transferring files to the Prime internal drive located inside the device. As I wrote, this method suits me and I do not intend to change it, and if you want to write about automatic synchronization of folders and songs between the Laptop and Prime, please create a separate post. Regards
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Moving files is child’s play with EngineDj without losing any data or directory structure. I do it in the following way. I create a directory on my laptop with songs, then I run EngineDj and connect it in Prime controller mode. Then I create a directory with the same name on Prime’s internal drive. Then I add the directory from the laptop to the collection and analyze it, then select all the songs and drag them to the directory on the Prime disk and by theme. I do this because I also use other controllers and software and I always have access to my songs in the same structure.