Full DJ software? "Prime DJ"

So whilst digging through my mountain of DJ gear I came across a fully boxed (as new) Torq conectiv DVS kit that i purchased back around 2008.

Torq was killed around the Avid/InMusic acquisition which left me a little sad as Torq 2.0 was amazing. It had features only just seen in software now and some yet to be seen. I never got the Torq 2.0 update as it was paid for and felt it should have been a free upgrade (or a minimal fee).

Once InMusic acquired it, it gave me hope. I thought we could see it released under a different name and as compatibility was added with the Numark controllers, I joped for use with DS1/NV/NS7/NS6/MixTrack, I also hoped for a rebrand but it never happened. That’s a shame as you own it… It’s yours… It’s amazingly good.

So… what if you did what Pioneer has done and launched a fully fledged DJ software to compliment the Prime series or even the MCX8000?

You guys are aware that the “Air” team worked on Torq? These guys are pumping out Engine Prime too. What if these two software solutions joined forces?

Engine Prime DJ.

The Air development team could look at re-skinning Torq DJ into the familiar Engine Prime green and adding the Engine look. Maybe merge the code so we have a one-srop solution for DJs?

It’s almost criminal there is a fully working DJ software under your control yet sat doing nothing.

Maybe look at open sourcing Torq? Or just going free-to-download? It would get the life into an old Torq box but would also be included as an optional download for the Denon DS-1 DVS box, even if it’s unofficial :wink:.

Please explore Torq, your very own in-house DJ software. Why waste a good thing? Your own team developed it and could easily help Denon play on a level playing field with the other, more established DJ software vendors.



Any thought about Engine Prime becoming Engine Prime DJ at any point? Torq is wasted and feel the Air team could make something great as the codebase already exists. Or maybe rebrand to Torq Prime and give it away to all Denon controllers? Or just use colours to denote the brand? Engine Prime with a green look for Denon but a red look for Torq (Numark Edition) and give it away with all your other controllers within InMusic?

I’m just thinking out aloud here but wanted to start a discussion on a ready-to-go software solution that they have total control over.

1 Like

If it were to happen, then Denon would really have to throw a hell of a lot more resource behind it. As we know Prime has never been publicly updated since it came out, and bugs like external devices not being recognised correctly have still not been fixed. Not to mention the ongoing saga with the MCX8000.

Personally I don’t think big companies can respond quick enough. I use VirtualDJ (which frequently gets dissed here) but their programming model is superb. Generally there are updates every couple of weeks and if any bugs are found in pre-release versions they are literally fixed within hours.

Maybe if and when the MCX8000 gets new firmware and Prime support my feelings will change, but right now it doesn’t seem like there is any chance of this ever happening.

Pioneer seem to want to make Rekordbox an all in one solution for all their gear, and it’s getting better and better. Sadly Prime isn’t n the same league right now and that’s the reality.

@kradcliffe - Could we perhaps keep in the spirit of the OP’s speculation and invitation for positive discussion? Surely a good idea to focus on the potential and creative possibilities for DJs should such an occurrence evolve dontchya think? :slight_smile:


I’ve been thinking a lot about the future ecosystem, and broadly speaking, see two possible routes.

For the Prime system to be the ultimate goal, there needs to be intro level soft/hardware that gets people started in that system. Serato realized this when they added the “Intro” version to DJ. NI and Atomix have long had LE editions to get people in the door. Pioneer’s ultimate goal is to get people onto their standalone players, and by making RB a full service type program, your library from that intro level controller you started on can be exported onto a USB and played on the highest level of gear.

So how does Denon, and more largely inMusic compete? If standalone is to be the hallmark of Engine, then some compatible controllers need to be developed. SC5000 is the high end, the MCX8000 could be the high end controller version, then a two channel mid range unit, and a basic intro unit. Save all the fancy onboard processing stuff for the high end units, with the lower end units playing prepared USB sticks. It would be a compelling ecosystem and get people into the idea from day one that this is the route if you never want to bring your laptop to the club.

However you bring up an interesting alternative - I completely forgot they own Torq. I’ve thought for some time that building Engine out as a full DJ software would be a hard task, and it would be more likely they’d buy out one of the other companies. But with Torq in house already, they could skip that step and possibly have something pretty solid for its first release. And that would let them develop the ecosystem much like Pioneer is trying to do - controllers cover the entry and mid levels, with a mix of controllers and stand alone units available at the top end. This would also have the added advantage of possibly bringing in all the controllers from the other banners (Numark, Akai, etc).

Personally, I’d like to see them follow the hardware route - I think that would give them a huge unique edge in a crowded field. But I could support a software mix in there too. The key really is that we have one ecosystem from start to finish.

No matter what they have up their sleeves, I feel we have some exciting times ahead!

1 Like

No problem Paul. Just pointing out that (as you know) things will need to move along far quicker than they are at present for Denon to be in with a chance of competing.

My take on it is that an all in one software is definitely the way to go … although I’m not a fan of controllers being locked to the manufacturers software. Many have moved over to Rekordbox for example, probably for ease of operation and such, but there are literally tens of thousands of people using other midi capable softwares (VDJ, Traktor) and many are very loyal to their platform. There are still thousands using AlcaTech BPM Studio and it hasn’t been developed in years. I don’t think manufacturers locking sown controllers helps as it just alienates customers who are used to using a different platform. You still get the sales of the unit so why force the software on people who don’t want it?

Ideally Engine Prime as stated above could cover everything from the likes of the MC series right up to SC with two distinct parts to it. One purely as a DJ software for controllers and another for individual media player prep work. Not to mention DMX integration but again Denon have hit the buffers with Stagelinq.

I’m not sticking in the boot, just looking at it from an objective customer’s view. I have worked for large companies in the past and of course it’s expected of staff to follow the company script, but there are issues that should’t be overlooked.

To me the current situation with Denon software is equivalent to going to a dating website and being offered a date in six months time. The DJ world moves very quickly and those who do not keep up will be left behind.


I totally agree.

My thoughts was Torq 2.0 is a ready-to-go software that has already been on sale previously so there is no real need for too much development as it stands. How I see it, the Torq program is sat on a HDD at InMusic/Air’s office currently netting the company $0. What if the software still made $0 but created a little InMusic brands ‘club’ by having the same library from the most basic of basic Ion branded controller to the highest Denon Prime kit and everything in-between? We have Rane, Denon, Numark, Akai, and these could all be used in this ecosystem which would almost be 50% of all DJ controllers sold. You have a very good alternative to Rekordbox right there and it’s cost almost nothing.

Torq wouldn’t really need anything added or taken away in its current form as it’s almost ready to go again so development time would be minimal. Maybe adding some security to the program could mean including a Serato style ‘dongle lock’ system. It could be implemented with the entire InMusic hardware all in a database list that opens up once plugged in. No serial, no stressing. MC6000/MC7000, Numark NV, Rane 68. The only thing I’d do to Torq would be to use the same colour palette as Engine Prime to get a more unified branded look and get the people on other gear like Numark used to the look and feel of software that can be used on club standard gear.

If you give it away to InMusic brand users for free then it’s losing as much money as it is now… Nothing. The benefits however would be getting people onto an single DJ software that is interchangeable and could be used as a trojan horse onto more expensive Prime equipment. Keep the Serato partnerships with the various InMusic brands but include free access to software from InMusic creates brand value (like Rekordbox did).

By giving it away to people who have bought InMusic hardware it would be a total solution and put Denon on a good footing for a bigger ecosystem. If they added Serato cue point reading and crate conversion to Torq then there’s very little transition between the two.

I forgot that Hercules has even has the DJuiced software and Stanton has Decadance.

Is the DJ Software market not kinda crowded already.

Traktor Virtual DJ Serato DJ Rekordbox DJ Mixxx Djay Pro Cross DJ

To mention a few

I feel that ship has sailed already.

DJ Software needs to be updated regularly, bugs not left on the long finger. Yet to see any update to Engine Prime despite being the Flagship software.

I’m pretty sure Pioneer is making a loss with the Rekordboxdj software part of the business. I just bought the XP1 controller today for €259 and it came bundled with Rkbx DJ and the DVS licence. Them two alone is worth at least 150/160. I’m also pretty sure they are not pushing as much units compared to when they were best of buddies with Serato.

That’s the way Pio is pushing RKBX into the hands of everyone. Can InMusic afford to that.

If money isn’t a problem then the way in is for InMusic to buy Serato and keep current staff and hire double the number…then we know that its full on war.

You are right in saying the software market is pretty crowded at the moment but as InMusic doesn’t currently control any of their own DJ software, it would be a welcome addition (apart from Prime which is just music management in it’s current form). For InMusic to get a (rather large) foot in the door there is a solution on the shelf right now that just needs distributing and promoting. The waiting time from conception to release is much lower than writing it from scratch whilst there is still some milage in the Torq brand, keeping it alive would create new interest. I can just imagine Mark at DJ Worx with his headline “Torq is back!” and the free download link for all InMusic controller owners. If there was added Serato cue point reading etc then it would be a much easier transition.

As Denon/Rane/Numark/Akai would have their own universal DJ software they can ‘do a Pioneer’ and bundle it with any controller sold. By keeping the Torq branding too there would be a standard name for all brands under the InMusic umbrella with an already established link to the DJ world.

If Prime became DJ software then maybe a simple “Powered by Torq” on the Engine Prime DJ skin would keep it’s legacy alive. I know many DJs that still highly regard Torq for it’s innovative features like the QuickScratch buttons and VST FX.

I feel the way Rekordbox is given away it is a way of saturating their users with their ecosystem. InMusic has this power too and feel it’s untapped.

Just in case anyone wanted a refresh on Torq 2.0 then here are very favourable reviews that skims over the best bits Torq had to offer like Ableton-style warping and Re-Wire for Ableton compatibility (but Ableton Link would be the de-facto standard now). Even reading the comments section shows the love it had. Traq Morph was epic.

DJTechtools: http://djtechtools.com/2011/05/25/review-avid-torq-2/

Skratchworx/DJWorx: http://skratchworx.com/reviews/torq_2.php

Video of features: https://youtu.be/CyjjjUZQ0-Y

Preach it brotha.

1 Like

Maybe one day we’ll see all it again.

(Have a word with the powers that be Vince) :wink:

I say, buy Mixvibes Cross. The guys that gave us RekordBox up until (and including) version 3. Rebrand it and off you go.

Yes! I am soo much in favour of bringing Torq back to life. I still use Torq today, every week. There’s simply no other DJ software around that caters to all my needs and I’m not even using most of the features of Torq! As a DJ I play a mixture of not only house and techno, but also disco, soul, funk and other old hand drummed stuff, so a lot of my tracks vary in tempo. Only Torq makes it easy to properly grid those tracks, which makes it possible for me to mix tracks that would never be possible to be mixed on vinyl. I can make disco remixes on the fly and lots of other tricks that were never possible before. So far only Rekordbox and Serato claim to be able to work with varying tempos, but I tried both and they are a total pain in the ass to grid those tracks. But most of all, they only work with a small amount of DJ controllers. Torq just works with any midi controller, and midi mapping is a breeze (just right click). And you can use VST plugins, that’s huge! So the market might be crowded, but Torq really filled a gap that has yet to be filled again.

And as far as regular updates go, as I said I am still using it today. I think it’s from 2011 or something! So it can almost be released without any work. The only thing I needed to tweak myself is the mapping with the iTunes library, since Apple made some changes to that in the meantime. And I recently found out the UI has glitches in High Sierra (so I’m still on El Capitan). But that is really minor work.

With the AIR team and the Torq software, Denon really has a hidden gem in their possession. And it would be a shame for them to just keep it laying around somewhere. Denon could significantly increase their market share and presence in the DJ space with something like Engine Prime DJ based off of Torq. I even dare to claim it would blow all other DJ software out of the water!

Does InMusic own Avid?

Only info I found online is they are “strategic partners” and that’s from 2013 or so and it’s mostly in relation to the Akai products.

I did have a look at Avid Torq 2.0 beatgridding method for drifting bpm on YouTube.

To be honest I will accept any kind of solution to the current limits of the beat gridding engine …be it the Torq, Serato, Virtual DJ, Rekordboxdj method.

InMusic bought M-Audio and and that included the Air team to my knowledge (I think Vince was involved with that too).

Torq 2 would be great, even as a freebee as you could use any soundcard with it.

If only!

So AIR designed Torq

InMusic acquired AIR.

Now I’m up to speed. :wink:

Yeah. It was a real shame inMusic haven’t done anything with it. There was some great features in Torq like the crossfader that had a filter built in and the quick scratch buttons.

Maybe we will see a version given away with the Denon DS1 in the future? To have a fully working DVS that had a loyal following abandoned was a real shame. I feel there will come a time when they release it again.

Even if they gave it away and open source it (like Mixxx).

The thing is, with all the ion/Numark/Denon branding they have, InMusic could include it with controllers as a choice when getting budget controllers like the Mixtrack or the DJ2GO thingies. Offer Serato, but give a fully fledged software that “could” be upgraded to Prime one day. Rename it Torq Prime and re-colour the interface green. You’ve got yourself an in-house Serato rival right there.

Maybe one day…


How do you figure?

Hahaha. “AIR” Vince.

Give us “Traq Morph”!!!

1 Like

I’ve just been googling Engine Prime & torq & it brought me to this thread. :slight_smile: I’m a recent buyer of an SC5000 (just one at the moment), & back in the day i was a torq user.

Now I’ve been using Engine Prime for the last week or two as I busily import my iTunes & Traktor libraries, & I can’t help feeling a certain sense of Deja-Vu. …to be frank, I think there’s a fair amount of torq code already running in Engine Prime.

I’ve no longer got a copy of torq to compare with, but the colours, fonts, graphics, scaling etc all seem very familiar. Also the flexible beat grid work flow seems (in my memory at least) to be very similar to torq’s.

It makes total sense. As already pointed out, In-Music aquired M-Audio too. So they already have the intellectual property. I also feel that you need to develop this into a “recordbox” like" program that you could load audio to the players directly over ethernet.

I may be imagining it, but I also have dusty memories of Vince being around back in the day! :wink:

1 Like