Audio | Soundcard Issue with Prime 4+? Not Powerful Enough?

Hi everyone, my prime 4+ I am wondering if there is something not fully right with it’s Soundcard/Audio Output. Allow me to explain that firstly this prime 4 has had a repair which is as follows “Replaced rear I/O PCB”. And hence audio output has worked as normal since then. Over the last month or so the volume level concerns me when using this in clubs for future or any big venue as it may not be suitable as I thought?

The sound quality is great from it so just a volume concern really and the fact I used this in a club not too far back and they kept asking me to turn the volume up more ( when my master was maxed out + plus my trim knobs were maxed out too). Thoughts? Not powerful enough for clubs? Don’t want to send it off etc packaging and then hearing nothing is wrong it when they looked. Thanks for any feedback & your time.

Well, for an XLR or RCA output, the voltage which should read “0dB” is well defined, so I don’t really expect the XLR output of a Prime 4+ outputting less voltage than say a Pioneer DJM. You could measure it though, using a voltmeter and a 1kHz sine (although not super accurate!).

But there is so much more happening to a signal chain before it reaches the speakers themselves, and this story varies from venue to venue:

  • Were you plugged directly into the speakers or where you plugged in to another mixer or sound processor?
  • What were the gain settings on the other mixer, if any
  • What were the gain settings on the sound processor
  • What were the gain settings on the amps (if passive)
  • What were the gain settings on the speakers themselve (if active)
  • Who was asking, the club owner or some drunk punters?
  • Was there a third party controlling the volume? A knob behind the bar? A small mixer at the lighting desk? A big PA mixer in the middle of the venue?
  • Last but not least: were you running through an SPL limiter which rendered any efforts turning up the volume fruitless?
  • Was this SPL limiter properly calibrated?

All in all, for small gigs you need a small soundsystem and a mixer. For bigger gigs you need a bigger soundsystem, connected to the same mixer.

There were also often times where we started to turn up the volume during the beginning of the evening, and around about the time we start wondering whats wrong with the volume someone walks into the booth and tells us there is an SPL limiter in place. And indeed, these things squeeze all dynamics out of your tracks. Best in these cases is to pull back the volume and wait a few seconds. But some limiters can really sneak up onto you, if you weren’t told they were there…

And more often than not the audience asks me to turn up the music while my 10Eazy display tells me Im running at 99,5dB(A),Leq60…. The legal limit is 100dB however, so Im already pushing things…

Ive also seen some sound techs set up the soundsystems gains so that with a maxed out DJM, fully into red, you will just achieve max SPL. This is a bad idea on multiple levels and such soundtechs should be fired, but indeed, when you would use a mixer with less maximum output voltage, then you wont really reach max allowed SPL. But again, in this case the soundtech needs to be replaced, not the mixer…

In any case, you should never have to run your master into red. Red says distortion, red says stop. A soundsystem should be capable enough to provide adequate SPL without running the mixer into red. Ofcourse, this means you have to know your limits as a DJ. Its a case of mutual respect and trust between sound tech and DJ.

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This does sound like your unit is non-faulty

Again, you havent got enough info. If your soundsystem had its gain turned all the way down, you can push everything in the red on your mixer, it will be futile…

Edited my post, the “not” was by mistake

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Is there a difference in output between the rear connectors for example XLR main, XLR booth and RCA?

An RCA outputs less RMS voltage than an XLR at 0dB (0,775Vrms vs 1,228Vrms), but that is by design, and is corrected for by the input stage of the receiving device. 0dBu is 0dBu

See website:

  • Analog Output
    • Master Balanced: +4dBu (unity), +24dBu (maximum)
    • Master Unbalanced: 0dBu (unity), +20dBu (maximum)
    • Zone Balanced: +4dBu (unity), +24dBu (maximum)
    • Booth: +4dBu (unity), +24dBu (maximum)
    • Headphone: < 150mW

And also: Line level - Wikipedia

For the record the DJM-A9 has an output level of +6dBu for master 1, +2dBu for master 2. And 19dB of headroom above that instead of 20. That 1-2dB difference doesnt mean anything in the real world, these specs are very comparable.

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I meant physically on his controller?

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Yh I have never noticed a difference between using rca or xlr in venues. This club was 3 floors, but I was in the main room which held 500+ people and the manager of the club was who came about the volume etc… also I used their XLR’s which led to a protected box (was built into the booth so I’d assume the amp or system they use is within and connected straight to their speakers. The manager simply said other dj’s kit he said was louder but they all use pioneer. Hence just wondered simply because it’s denon. But the info on db and output you stated is always useful to know.

That’s a hint that your XLR is just working fine. You could try to use the Booth or Zone XLR out like @Homeland101 said. If one of your outputs failed, swapping outputs would omit this failure. You could do this on a test bench with a PA mixer: adjust everything for 0dB at the meters, swap outputs, and see if you can get the same level with normal settings…

Another thing that could be wrong is that the XLR cable was faulty: and XLR cable has 3 wires: mass, positive, and a negative mirror of the positive (which is a way to cancel cable noise). If the positive or negative fails you will still have signal, but it’s 6dB less (and that is quite a lot).

Or somebody tampered with the in house system, it got noticed after you played there, it got fixed (or not), and the owner never told you :wink:

But by specs The prime 4+ is more or less equal to a DJM-A9…

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Ah okay no problem. Yes i don’t know what the sound system in room 1 is like. But I did dj in room 2 where the speakers were 20+ years old and 2 were on their way out. So can bet the main room is just as old probably. But I might come back to your post and try that test. I did use their xlr also and not mine which I know are fine. Might use mine in clubs if ever possible & see if I ever get staff saying the same thing. Good to know, I’d be confused if a 2 grand unit wasn’t squaring up to pioneer…

But as already explained there shouldn’t be any great difference using the correct settings unless your unit has a faulty output stage.

It got repaired by a qualified Denon technician. So hasn’t/shouldn’t.

Have you tested the voltage of the output?

no not as of yet