I totally agree “maintaining a good sound”. The key word there being “good”. If there’s a way of making, or maintaining 99% quality sound, and a way of making 49% quality sound, then of course some people are going to notice. But when the difference is 99% quality verses 98.9% then not even one gig goer is going to be anything other than blindly, or should that be deafly) unaware of that .1%
There’s a lot of soft-Symantecs about what matters and what doesn’t. Like if a bar drops it’s drink prices by a cent each, drops it’s dress code, fits 4 new lights, and adds some shiny holographic self-adhesive tape decor around the wall-mounted drinks menus … and gets 5 extra party goers the first night after they get these things going, then what got those extra 5 people? Could be any of those things, or none of them
I think this is a really subtle one. I’ve been clubbing for more years than I can remember and actually, unless the sound is truly terrible, I don’t remember it often having a negative impact in my night. There are those occasions though, when you go to a club and the sound system is just so (edited!!) spot on when you walk away just thinking WOW!! that must be positive long term for the bar sales.
It was mostly RightMark Audio Analyzer automated tests and then a spectrum analyzer when trying to get the players to replicate a simple swept tone. I think the things a scope was used for was looking at impulse responses that showed some weird oscillations, then test waveforms (square, triangle, sawtooth, etc) on the players when keylock was on which discovered situations where the keylock will eventually degrade with extreme moving pitches until it’s toggled, and then looking at what happens when the tone controls are used on the mixer. The latter revealed that the iso mode has a nifty bypass at 12 o’clock.
I actually went out of my way not to repost measurement tests or links in this thread, but since you seem to misrepresent them and the circumstances surrounding them…
I’m not the only person that thinks there’s something wrong with the players’ sound, nor the only person that’s run tests like this. Also, does this look microscopic? You’re saying I’m being spammy, but your other statement doesn’t sound like a reasonable assessment of the visual representation of the nonlinear distortions by a person that has actually looked at the spectrum analysis with their own eyes. This is supposed to be a single spike moving from right to left. All those other spikes are harmonics, additional garbage generated by the players. You still want to stand by that statement of yours that it’s microscopic?
Nonetheless, it was an important enough subject to the OP of this thread, as it has been for others, to bring sound up in the first place, ask if others have noticed this, and ask if there’s an explanation perhaps as to why.
Just to return to the subject actually at hand in this thread…
I presume N1xer meant to say there was a lack of warmth and there seemed to be noise or grunge embedded in the outputted Prime system signal. In other words, I believe he meant he perceived signal-correlated noise on the X1800, not that he wanted a higher signal-independent noise floor in the form of hiss. However, it’s possible he meant to say he wants a worse noise floor in the second half of that sentence.
I know SlayForMoney understandably assumes N1xer was missing the higher noise floor of analog. Wondering if N1xer can clarify his somewhat confusing statement.
Not sure. However, if people keep pretending everything is hunky dory with the Prime system sound, I can guarantee it will not be improved further.
I don’t think many get the point. Myself as a sound operator want everybody to sound prinstine on my set especially me. Remember that denon launched a change your rider campaign yea and if a rider or a quasi one has something to present to make things better for himself and other who’ll be using gear based on this campaign should raise the technical issues. It only benefits everyone no?
I find the sound acceptable and can work around certain things thanx to Reticulli’s observations.
Everytime you play on a sound system that’s not your’s and people think you sound awesome and are good, remember to thank the soundman.
A DJ’s job is to play music, a sound operator’s job is to make things sound pristine.
Myself and everyone else waiting for firmware updates should most certainly be worried about “additional garbage”
: additional garbage that spammingly diverts attention away from far far more pressing issues such as BPM detection, which we might have had by now had someone not kept banging on and on and on and on about high end roll off
: additional garbage that spammingly distracts the firmware team from far far more pressing issues such as us all being able to do more housekeeping on the Prime players themselves such as manually tapping or entering bpms, naming loops and cues and editing id tags
:additional garbage that spammingly distracts the software team from adding several of the most liked, most voted for and most wanted groups many new features which many people feel are truly missing and might actually be really noticed by the most important and most critical of all measurement devices ; our guests ears.
Your hijacking of other people’s posts is, in my opinion, causing all of us big delays in receiving firmware updates by your distraction of the firmware and software teams with your constant reposting of trivial “look what I found”.
I’d imagine that I’m not the only one waiting for improved BPM detection and improved Engine, who’s thinking that those two items alone are significantly more important to get finalised and released and installed on our Primes before any more distraction spam is spewed out
You’re the one coming onto a thread where sound quality was brought up by the OP and saying the problem is microscopic. I and others are not going to stop talking about this subject in evidence-based ways just because some forum members who can’t live-mix without perfectly-accurate BPM counters and pre-set cues have issues with Prime inadequacies other than sound.
Come on, we’re all heading for a cat fight if this keeps going. We are all trying to make things better for each other. I don’t think anyone is trying to distract from anything.
I want “Full Spectrum Beatgridding” on deck also this is the #1 priority and immediate need (not a want) for me. But I will support for sound upgrading also. So forgive me ladies and gents
Me too! Me too! But the constant bending, twisting and hijacking of threads toward “I’m so clever, I found this minuscule insignificant thing and it gonna mention it at every opportunity” needs to stop being thrown in as a constant distraction to the main issues. If it’s not the BPM algorithm in firmware and software and the engine Prime software in general then we don’t need threads twisted back towards the insignificant stuff (no matter how much the tiny bits are zoomed in on) until the important stuff has been focused on, completed and released to public by Denon.
Actually I’d say they’re bang on the money and have hit the nail on the head when looking back over your posts of the last year or so on here. Also other people on here have mentioned in this forum that you misbehave in exactly the same with topics on other forums who have you. That needs to be curbed either by yourself or moderators the spamming of your own cough cough discoveries is tiresome.
Says the poster who’s been trolling on me since the beginning…
Someone nicely reports a glitch on a piece of old gear and you call it whining?
I also challenge you to find posts where I’ve done what either you have done or is alleging. Find me posts where I haven’t actually made a case for some subject related to that thread. BPM analysis literally has nothing to do with this thread at all and none of you are even attempting to tie it in… except that you guys are alleging talking about sound quality distracts from it. You’re not even using it as a reasonable case for why sound quality is unimportant. Hilarious.
For instance, the last time I was flagged in another thread I think I was talking about how continuous mode doesn’t work in a thread not originally about continuous mode… because that was brought up earlier in the thread by people saying continuous was a stopgap to no automix. I might not want automix, but the fact was continuous isn’t much of a stopgap if it doesn’t work! I’m starting to think most of the trolls on here are just lazy and don’t bother to even read the threads they show up on and start flagging stuff.
PS, feel free to start a thread in a more appropriate section to post your supposed findings. I’m eager to see it.
Unfortunately, I agree with others on here. One example is the thread about the low recording volume. It doesn’t take a spectrum analyzer for most people to understand there was an issue with low recording volume. Sometimes listening with our own ears IS the proof. Things are only subjective and opinion based to a point. Putting in random scientific facts along with the “my knowledge is far superior” attitude can support a claim but at some point, it really is annoying.
The OP did start this thread about the sound quality vs other units, which is valid and made many of us take a look or another listen to the X1800. Most haven’t noticed a significant difference vs other equipment but his and your points are still valid.
Sometimes, it’s the WAY you say something vs WHAT is actually said that makes many want to ignore it completely.
Just wanted to jump on and say that shortly after the original post i went and got the Rane MP2015. Much better sound quality and useful for my needs. I still have the X1800 and do the odd bit of Dj’ing with it. My original thoughts are still pretty much what i think of it as a bit of kit. Have to say though, the lack of updates/improvements and now the fact it is being given away with every purchase of 2 SC5000M just seems to be undermining the mixer. I have really struggled to sell it even at a massive discount on what i paid. The approach by Denon to try and shift Prime units is seriously undermining the whole Prime set up as a serious bit of DJ Kit in my opinion. It’s all starting to feel a bit like a failed venture to seriously challenge the dominance of Pioneer
