Prime 4 - harsh/Muddy sound quality when loud?

Try, see if there is any noticeable change. As I had multiple times an issue between installations of Virtual Dj that on the same sound card it could sound sometimes worse and sometimes better. Any other software I used sounded way better with the same sound card than virtual dj. The test gave me results tat were not always consistent, so I stopped with it. But I noticed, that definitely there is some inconsistency in sound processing by virtual dj. I used multiple laptops (win and mac’s), soundcard was Denon X1600. Also tested with computers from other users. Always Serato, and Traktor showed a very good sound quality compared to VDJ, using same files and same audio setup for reference.

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Going to test some on a usb directly through the Prime 4 and test that too. Thank guys, much appreciated!

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Ok so did a bit of testing tonight. Probably had it at about 70% or normal volume so was enough to test. Tested both sets of speakers and there was no difference between them so speakers are Ok. Tested the RX2 with Balanced XLR vs the same in the Prime 4. The RX2 did sound smoother across the board. The Prime 4 was more (slightly) bright and harsh in the mids and tops, as if the sound was too ‘hot’.

I then tested the Prime 4 XLR balanced vs RCA. The RCA to my ears and the other DJs ears sounded less harsh and smoother, more akin to the RX2 sound.

So to our ears, the XLR output on the Prime 4 is not as good as either the XLR on the RX2 or the RCA on the Prime 4 itself. I can continue with RCA output to keep my ears happy, although you do introduce buzz and interference at low levels, but if this is the case, it’s not good for a flagship product from Denon to have this potential issue.

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You did test that in standalone mode, or also thru virtual dj?

It was all through VDJ tonight. Will try stand-alone another night when I get chance. Ran out of time!

I had a few thoughts back in 2019 on the sound but I’ve heard that the sound quality has improved since then.

And here…

https://community.enginedj.com/t/improve-audio-processing-quality/14092/2?u=mrwilks

Lots of technical talk in those threads too.

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Thank you to everyone who has replied - appreciate your time. Would love to know if any other Prime 4 users can test to see if theirs is the same.

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What also could do a washy sound - If you for mistake use a DMX cable instead of an normal XLR Cable.

Because DMX has an additional resistor of round about 125 Ohm. This could also lead into washy sound output. Always use normal microphone XLR Cable. If you also do light, then mark your cable from light and sound, and don´t mix them :wink:

edit sorry for my bad english: I don´t mean resistor … I mean resistance (impendance) … the cable itself has a little impendance.

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Hi thanks for the reply. It’s definitely microphone cable!

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No, the normal DMX cables don’t have any resistor.

A resistor is used for DMX termination, which should be just a connector, not a cable.

Then measure a dmx cable shorted … you will see it has 125 ohm.

And yes, there is also a dmx termination … which also have round about 125 ohm.

Have you ever tried a microphone cable as dmx … if it´s short … no problem … but with longer microphone cables you can´t do dmx anymore. you need 125 ohm cables.

Source: XLR vs. DMX Cables: What's the Difference? | Hosa

What is a DMX Cable?

DMX cables are what we use for lighting. The cables’ purpose isn’t about carrying an audio signal, it’s carrying information or data that will communicate changes between lights and the source. The impedance required for this is 110 ohms.

As a long time light designer I can tell, that I never, ever seen a DMX cable with a resistor build in. Termination is 120 Ohm - resistor between data + and data - pins. Mic cables are with minimum impedance, usually shielded only by grounding mesh. DMX cables - when good quality, should have mesh and foil wrapping around the data cores.

DMX cables are good in passing thru Digital signals, but as You mentioned they are bad for analog and low frequency signals - like audio.

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No resistor in the cable … it´s impendance … the cable itself has a resistance. The only resistor you have - is the terminator … there is a resistor between pin 2+3 of 110 ohm … maybe 120-125 ohm. this is only plugged to the last dmx device in the chain.

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Yep, exactly that way.

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I connected the my amplifier left channel to the XLR output and the right channel to the RCA output.

Then I started a track and listened to the two channels together, or I moved the balance left or right to hear difference: nothing.

I also compared the two channels on the spectrum analyzer (which shows the two channels separately) and also as the level of the various frequency bands I did not notice any difference between XLR and RCA.

I may not have a keen audiophile ear, but honestly I haven’t heard any difference between Prime 4’s XLR and RCA Master output. :thinking:

Thanks for trying that DjAj - can I ask a couple of questions: Was this in a bedroom environment or through a club/bar setup? How old is your Prime 4? Mine is nearly 2 years old now, so wondered whether it is an issue that affects models from earlier in the production run?

It is not a bedroom, but I tested it in a room where there is only the audio system.

A year and a half.

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I just got myself RCA adapters to track possible improvements. Which titles do you think the difference is best heard? Maybe on one of the Sheffield A2TB test tracks?

I noticed it more with vocals and high frequency high hats, but vocals mainly. It was the high frequencies in the vocals to me that were most noticable

This was where i noticed it too.