I don’t see the screen in front of me but there’s numerous settings on there that I’m unsure about.
Oh, not to get off topic but, is there a way to export history of a set as a text file? I always like posting after my gigs.
Haha it’s your topic you take it whichever way you want.
There are tonnes of settings in Engine, just don’t get stressed trying to pile them all in straight away. Make a thread if you need to know anything, loads here will help.
To export your history you have to connect your drive to your computer with engine desktop then in the drives tab you can right click on the drive and select history then export as various format including CSV, which you can convert to TXT.
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I have done this. Unfortunately, the csv file opens up as an excel spreadsheet. Mangles up everything when you save it as txt. Wish there was an easier way.
Iso runs each channel through a three-way Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/oct crossover like you’d use on a speaker system, which causes phase distortion ‘group delay’ unless it’s bypassing automatically when the channel’s tone controls are all centered like the X18xx. You can run a test waveform like a square, triangle, or saw to a scope like TrueRTA to see if it bypasses or not. In iso mode, each band’s knob is its own full trim-gain for that band, rather than a parametric EQ… even though in EQ mode you have no control over the parameters. EQ mode dips or boosts gradually from the center position. In iso mode, once the bypass is off, it’s the same phase distortion all the time. That’s why I suggested EQ mode for comparing sound. Some people do like the sound of some isos with some music, though, compared to the dry sound of the original track, even if they’re not changing the frequency balance.
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You can do it, save it to your desktop as CSV then right click on the file and use ‘open with’ then choose notepad, then once open you can save as TXT.
If not, the JSON file should give you more options, but that’s outside of my expertise.
I usually convert the CSV to PDF for sending to my mates.
I have raised a feature request for an online playlist hub similar to Serato so we can upload.
Yeah, I know it can be converted but, it comes in messy and I find myself having to copy and paste to get it organized. It may be easier to just do screen shots. Hope they make it easier in future updates.
Just played around with the new pioneer I just purchased. Not a fan. It really seems cheap and just too many buttons. Sound wise…a little better but still doesn’t hit you like my Hercules.
So I connected VDJ from my computer to prime 2 and had the same results. Even weaker imo. My buddy noticed the difference and wondered if the Hercules had a built in pre amp. We also discussed putting a pre amp device hooked into the prime 2. But yeah, it’s noticable for sure.
Interesting.
Make sure you have the software & interface at the same sampling frequency (khz) most of your tracks are.
For the record, all headphone jacks are technically a ‘preamp’. Problem is, if you don’t like that preamp, going from that jack into another one is only going to be slightly better in most circumstances. You can get louder, buffer it electrically while doing something like lowering the output impedance of the jack to provide more damping for flatter, tighter, deeper bass. But that’s about it.
Most of the older CDJs from the CDJ-1000mk2 onward are bit-perfect transports at zero pitch from the SPDIF. The old Denon players were pretty similar to that. So, if you’re trying to figure out what your reference should be to compare gear, you might want to use that, your computer running foobar into a good interface, or some other quality transport to a DAC of known quantity in the future.
The only other thing I can suggest is maybe invest in a quality outboard headphone amp and/or hp amp & dac combo. Maybe like this:
You said something about ordering both a Prime 4 and a Pioneer all-in-one console. Is that correct? You will soon have three all-in-one consoles to compare at home?
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Yes, I’ve also got a few new non all in one consoles too for comparison. The pioneer had the same mediocre sound through the headphones. If I can’t find a good fix, I may very well prepare sets with my Hercules and transfer to the prime 2 for live gigs.
Had a surprise today testing the prime 4+. Found out there were different and more settings on it. I just played it out of the box without updating the software. Noticed the infamous headphone gain setting but, as expected, it just increased the volume with no adjustment to quality.
I want to say the sound was maybe slightly better but the balance is still off. For some reason, this thing also really bothers my ears too.
Such a shame, I really absolutely love every thing about this. So much better than the pioneer.
I guess I’ll just have to put my tail between my legs and get back out there with the old Hercules.
What headphones are you using? What’s the ohm rating?
Mc-150 & audio -technica pro headphones. Not sure the rating but they all sound fine on the Hercules.
Did you have VDJ & the audio interface set to 44.1khz like your tracks?
Did you try keylock off and/or with simplest keylock setting at zero pitch?
Did you try just with Foobar into the Prime 2?
Is the Prime 2 even class compliant for audio?
I can tell you that the X1800 is rock solid running at 96khz both in its processing of the SPDIF inputs and summing multiple test waveforms when checking its USB outputs. That doesn’t get into the performance of the analog output stages, though, so maybe on your Prime 2 the analog outs are some of what you don’t like.
Engine OS:
- Rolls off the highs (this was improved slightly a few years back probably at the expense of more #2).
- Has intermodulation distortion plus noise probably from aliasing echo (and this gets worse with keylock on even at zero pitch).
- In spite of #1 & #2, there is still some ultrasonic garbage getting through the Engine OS processing that shows up on a response trace, which isn’t good for downstream analog circuits.
- Too much extreme use of keylock over time seems to cause accumulation errors that presents as increasing distortion + noise, but it can be temporarily cleared with toggling keylock… until you do extreme keylock stuff for too long again.
- There might be an absolute DC offset very slightly into the negative on both left & right channels or summing them but is fine if you subtract them. That could also be the mixer or TrueRTA making it erroneously look like that, though. Any low-pass filter can offset an impulse response from the DC center line slightly.
- Test waveforms definitely do something strange where the amplitudes / magnitudes appear to oscillate especially with an impulse. On other waveforms besides an impulse (like square wave test signal) it may be wobbling up & down across the DC line… like a varying DC offset over time. This is Engine OS, not the mixer or TrueRTA, and is independent of keylock.
Edit:
Upon further evaluation, I think #6 might be less DC offset wobble and more the FIR processing causing oscillations between underdamping and overdamping on the transients over time, which causes the leading and trailing edges of test waveforms to grow and shrink weirdly… overshooting & slightly undershooting in varying amounts. An impulse response test waveform, however, is nothing but transients, so that would explain why the entire impulse seems to grow and shrink.
#5, however, is an even weirder issue and seems to be a glitching with Elastique.
On a positive note, the oldest firmwares prior to the high frequency tweak had poorer handling of higher frequency sample rate tracks where you didn’t get much benefit from the increased frequency response. Now you still don’t get the extension you should be, but higher frequency sample rate tracks are more extended in the treble measurably compared to lower rates.
And the test waveforms, especially with keylock off or keylock not used much or for very long continuously, do have nice shapes and very little pre or post ringing. Excellent finite impulse response processing behavior at least in regard to ringing and shape if you’re taking a freeze frame of just one and not looking across time.
Engine OS, though, certainly does process the bejebus out of everything it plays. So, some of its faults might be related to all the aggressive sample rate conversions it’s doing combined with all the rates it must be compatible with.
I haven’t checked, but I’ll try. I’ve been busy comparing different consoles. Man, I really like the prime 4+. I can mix well with it but I have to really keep the volume down. I get a bad ringing in my ears from it which worries me.
Most of what you said honestly went over my head. Your last paragraph seems pretty spot on. Sounds very overprocessed.
The prime 2 is simple for me and what I do. I do have a hard time figuring out these sync buttons a bit. You can’t just turn it off. You have to re drag the track and turn sync off to get it back to the original bpm. I’m not accustomed to that. Im loving the 10 inch screen on the 4+ too.
Trying my best with this unit.
I’ve always wondered if the Prime gear was partially responsible for my worsening tinnitus. My ENT doctor appointments history related to ear problems including tinnitus seem to coincide with getting my Prime gear, but it also got worse when I came down with COVID, and only improved very slightly taking an entire year off from DJing. Other users on the forum have said their ears don’t ring more from Prime gear than any other, so I seemed like an outlier.
I suppose it might be that the treble roll off, IMD + noise, ultrasonic junk, keylock glitches, and DC offset oscillations are mostly inaudible, we’re used to hearing lots of etch and post-ringing on transients in digital DJ gear, and we’re just abusing the unusually low distortion on Prime by cranking the volume up too loud. I think that’s unlikely, especially since it seems like I can’t hear as much detail on Prime at lower volumes than the original music on reference gear, but I can’t 100% rule it out.
You’re right, that the useability and features are really great, and InMusic has made various improvements continuously even if it was a rough start for the product line, so some people like me not totally satisfied with it have stuck with it.
My ears are ringing in a quiet room in my house. I would hate to imagine how it would feel at the club. All this time I thought the touch screen and no laptop would be a learning curve for me but all of that has been rather fun. And I really like the new update too.
I never would have predicted the sound through my headphones would be it’s downfall.
I’d suggest you take a day or two off from it to rest your ears, then try just listening to the Prime all-in-one consoles through some speakers listening recreationally to music. No headphones. No DJ mixing. Principally, I think it’d be interesting to find out if the rear outs on some speakers at moderate volumes cause your ears to ring with Prime gear more than other stuff. Doing so many comparisons lately, it’s possible you’ve just fatigued your ears. Later on, you could try comparing the Prime rear outs to some other reference sources on the same speaker system.
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1.Not sure where the first setting you mentioned is at for VDJ. Could you share a screenshot?
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Turned the key lock off.
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Haven’t tried foobar yet.
Ordered some even better headphones but, I don’t have high hopes that’s the issue.
My return time ends in a week. I’ll try to keep myself from getting to absorbed with this. With that said, I have a mini set next week. Im going to try the prime 2 out live to see how I feel.