BPM problems with new update (3.4)

Engine DJ Hardware Standalone Controllers
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Hello fellow Prime 4 users,

Since the latest update I have been experiencing problems with my BPM of all tracks when streaming and all tracks held on my SATA card.

  1. I’ve deleted twice and updated twice on my controller and MacBook.

  2. Thought it was just TIDAL as I’ve just started to use it from streaming some tracks.

  3. Now done a test of two sets from tracks from my SATA card.

  4. Each time I upload a track, the BPM is of by 0.5 to 1.

  5. The BPM keeps changing if I have it in a loop and this means I’m constantly nudging to keep all types of tracks in sync.

  6. The only thing I’ve not tried is auto sink each time, this is not how I want to DJ each time unless I have too in an emergency.

  7. I’ve never had a problem with any of this before.

I’ve looked to see if anyone else has a post on this subject, nothing found so far.

Any ideas or what could be my problem?

Does anyone else have this problem or had this problem and fixed it?

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Will

Aka Thatswhatyourmumsaid

2

It would help to know what tracks you’ve experienced this on (artist and title) so that others can investigate. No need to list everything, but at least a couple that you’ve noticed.

What do you mean by “the BPM is of” (sic)? Compared to what?

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Thanks for the reply, I’ve played over 500 tracks, about one hundred of them from Tidal, the remainder from all bought tracks over the years, they sit on my SATA.

Each time I load a track, then match the BPM, the BPM keeps moving from what it should be, so a 125 track that I’ve used many times before is now at 125.5.

Then when I’ve nudged the track back to beat match it then moves again, never more than + or \ one.

All my downloaded music worked perfectly and as a marker in the sand I’ve only used Tidal for over a five weeks now, never had a problem.

Since doing the new update this beat matching problem has arrived.

So as for tracks it’s happening with all tracks.

The path ways must have changed.

I’ve updated twice for the just incase it’s a known bug with the upgrade.

Wondering if anyone else is having this problem as has fixed it.

Hopefully someone will see this post and have a fix.

Much appreciated.

Will

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4

This only happens when you’re looping (as you mentioned that initially)? How are you looping? Is quantise on or off? Are you adjusting the loop by ear or relying on the beat grid?

The reason I asked for track info is at this point it’s unknown whether the tracks are modern fixed tempo tracks or older variable tempo tracks.

I just loaded two tracks here, started one then lined up the other one and played it. Stayed in sync. Looped the second track (one bar) and it stayed in sync. Gorgon City - Elevate and Gorgon City - Go All Night.

BTW are you using a Prime 4 or 4+ (you’re in the 4+ area but mentioned a 4).

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There is a prime 4 + area? I thought I had done just a post. Learn something new every day,

I get why you have asked those questions, I use all techniques, by ear and by beat grid.

I have a prime 4, and have done the correct upgrade for the prime four, I thought I might have used something different.

My thoughts is that the new update has some sort of built in change, something that when your music has been analysed the setting has been changed.

If I had music that had been ripped since the new update I would have examined the format, I’ve changed no settings, this is what is confusing.

Your thoughts?

Thanks

Will

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Also trying to change the area! To no avail! Sorry all you Prime 4 + users, this post is just for Prime 4 users.

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It all seems to be working fine here, but that’s with my choice of tracks and my DJing technique. It would help to know more detail about what you’re doing - at least a couple of track names, whether it’s only when you loop, how long the loops are, and so on, so we can try to replicate.

Otherwise if we try it with our tracks and it works, it doesn’t confirm why you’re having an issue.

If you make a video at least then we might be able to see & hear what’s happening.

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Thanks, I will upload a video at some point as that will explain and also help others.

Thanks

Will

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There’s no bug report section in the public sections. Moved this to the normal standalone controllers part of the forum.

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Thanks, I could not work it out to, I always use my phone when I should use my mac.

Will

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I’ve noticed the same thing too, using Tidal.

I’ve only got my Prime 4+ recently and have only ever used it on 3.4.

I think it started doing it around the time that it started notifying me of Tidal Subscription changes upcoming on may 13th.

I find very often most tracks I play I have to nudge them slightly to keep them synced. I don’t use auto-sync either. but if 2 tracks are at 125, they’ll fall out of sync slowly.

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12

If you’re not using sync that’s completely normal behaviour, mixes very rarely stay in line for the full duration, regardless of what you set the on screen BPM as.

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I disagree. Engine DJ detects the bpm of the track, it’s not a set metadata.

If it says both are the same, they shouldn’t drift.

That’s not how time works.

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This sounds more like the words of a computer technician than a DJ. im telling you from 25yrs of manually mixing tracks together that setting the BPM the same does not mean they will never drift.

Why do you think every single DJ on the planet has to adjust the tracks during their mix, and always have done? Extremely talented DJs like Carl Cox, Roger Sanchez, Sasha, Digweed etc.

even measuring down to 100ths of a BPM, its still not accurate, 1000ths of a BPM, still not accurate.

Even a quartz powered wrist watch will drift out of time eventually, because time just isn’t that accurate.

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15

That’s not how the beat grid works either. Software analyses the entire track then assigns an average BPM to it. One single BPM, whether the track has a steady tempo or not.

That’s the BPM which gets displayed. It’s not being generated live, based on the BPM of the track at a particular point - it’s an average.

For example if your track varies between 124 and 126 the BPM displayed will be 125.

Algoriddim changed the game recently with the Fluid Beatgrid system on DJay Pro, which DOES follow the exact BPM and show a live readout when it drifts, but you still have to use sync (or nudge) to keep two variable tracks in time.

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16

Ok everyone,

Let’s stop the DJ School for a moment, that facts are it did not happen before, now it does!

Denon why?

My videos to show this are not uploading!

We don’t need to go and split the atom, that has been done, Someone from the Denon team might say we know about this and we are working on it to why it now happens.

Thanks in advance

Will

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Your original issue sounds completely different to what the person above is stating though.

18

That explains it really well.

Thanks for the details!