Anchor Post - All topics about the next stage of Engine for MCX8000

Legacy Products Software
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I am with Boothe on this one. 44.1KHz is audio standard and has been for ages.

There are some advantages to using 48Khz (but mainly to 88/96 and 176/192) in production and recording environments. The higher the frequency the better when manipulating sounds.

But, unless you are releasing a video, ALL audio gets bounced back to 16-bit/44.1KHz for general public consumption. Why? Because it will play on any piece of equipment out there. This is CD-quality sound and higher quality serves no purpose. Especially in DJ environments. If you, indeed for any reason, acquire 48KHz MP3 from some source, the best bet is to do a ONE-TIME conversion, using high quality hard-/software with max. quality (usually slow) settings. After that, only use the 44.1KHz version of your file. Better still would be to rip from the original source (a DVD for example) straight into WAV or some other lossless format like FLAC. Keep that as your base, untouched file in archive and use it to do any audio preparation you like to do (whether it be manipulating BPM in Ableton, volume/gain correction in any of the available programs or running your tracks through Platinum Notes). Only when you are done with manipulation should you do the final conversion to 44.1KHz MP3.

In my very humble opinion, the MP3 320 sound quality is great for DJ-purposes as it’s just about impossible to tell the difference in the typical DJ environment and it lets you store a lot of tracks on small devices like USB-sticks. The other advantage being that MP3 is accepted on every DJ software platform and most recent DJ gear, which is not always true for lossless formats like FLAC and AIFF for example. WAV is not a good DJ format due to it’s lack of proper tagging options. There is however no added value to having 48KHz sample rate, while it does put extra demands on hardware/software.

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Cheers.

And yes Craig there’s a world of difference between the SC5000 Prime and the 8000. Funnily enough, two of those things are:

Features

Price

Everything, from every provider will be a balance between those, and other factors.

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I’m not arguing the point that we wouldn’t hear the difference & that ideally all our files should be 44.1. What I’m trying to put across is that many people will have these files in their collection . If it is possible to have the 8000 able to play them, then let’s do that. Saying 48khz files is nonsense doesn’t help & is incorrect because lots of people do have it (whether it’s correct format or not). I would love to have peace of mind knowing the next dj will have access to all his music. If it’s not possible due to hardware limitations, rather just say so.

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How simple were the days that vinyl was vinyl (mind you, there was a HUGE quality scope from absolutely flimsy crap to tough, heavy discs you could commit homicide with) and you had SL1200s and NOT-SL1200s and a handful of mixers.

@crazycraig: It says so on the MCX8000 specs page: Supported Media

WAV: 44.1kHz, 16bit/24bit Stereo
AIFF: 44.1kHz, 16bit/24bit Stereo
MP3: CBR/VBR 44.1kHz, Stereo 32kbps – 320 kbps
AAC: CBR/VBR 44.1kHz, Stereo 64kbps – 320 kbps

Not like Denon is trying to sell you something as 48KHz supported and then users finding out it actually doesn’t. I looked at the specs before I bought the unit, decided 44.1 only is not a problem as my entire collection is just that anyway. Had I had a large part of my collection in 48KHz with no intention of converting it, then I would not have bought the unit.

What I did miss was a FLAC option. But, while it means I can’t “upgrade” my collection to be FLAC-only, everything is already MP320 which is supported, so no problem there.

The next person will have yet other specs he or she sees missing. It’s up to us individually to determine if what is offered for sale fits our needs, wants and demands.

Telling the manufacturer they SHOULD have made other (design) decision doesn’t make too much sense.

What is a make or break feature for one DJ is a non-issue for another. And it’s just impossible to meet every persons requirements as a manufacturer and still get your product out to market and at the price you have decided on. And what you think is a must-have in a standalone controller with screens at a decent price point, I might find totally irrelevant and the other way around.

I work in a tech environment with a CTO who is technology and innovation driven. Every single product we have brought to market was, in his eyes, “unfinished”. I think every techie thinks in that way. They want to build the best product with all features imaginable. Luckily there are people that make decisions about specs and push stuff so we can actually start using it. They’ll use the feedback to make a mk2 happen where most requested but missing features will be added.

Up to us, customers, to decide if we want to be pioneers (bad choice of words?) and use the latest product, or if we rather wait for the product to mature into mk2 and get on board then.

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Back in these good old Vinyl days. I still miss it - 2 turntables and a Mixer and you were ready to go.

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We see the ads, watch the reviews etc… But they never highlight the short-falls of a product (obviously). I remember buying a set of cdj400’s when they first came out. I was so excited & couldn’t wait to use them. However when I actually put my music on the stick, more than half my files couldn’t be used. After some research I discovered that the 400 doesn’t support .wav on the memory stick. I was gutted!! I couldn’t believe that this amazing new media player that I bought couldn’t play the media I had. Even though this was listed in the specs of the unit, it was something that I had overlooked thinking that this amazing media player (which didn’t come cheap) could play all the file formats that my cheap ass dvd player could. Here I am years later making the same mistake again. So I do blame myself for not paying attention to the finer details but as I already said, If it’s possible - bring it on!!

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In conclusion… different equipment will have different operational parameters.

It’s clear, in the case of documented parameters for the 8000, you know what it is compatible with. If you’ve got more than one user for your 8000 then I’m sure you could think of all sorts of ways of letting your users know those same parameters. Perhaps a laminated card next to the 8000, a photocopy of the relevant page of the manual, verbal discussion, a label next to the USB ports, etc.

We can agree that a unit which just plays everything would be nice.

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With a spare cartridge, headshell, stylus, cleaning cloth… coin for balancing on headshell for bouncy environments… :smile:

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And 100 kilo of vinyl on top of very heavy flightcases

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ENGINE… Whoever coded the dialogue box that appears after you delete files from a library or target, that also asks if you’d like to remove the files from the disk with the ‘Enter’ key defaulting to the ‘YES DELETE ALL OF MY MUSIC’ option, should be fired. make the software open source and benefit from the internet doing the work for you. LITERALLY. people come up with crazy stuff and Denon as a company should do what everyone else is doing and get the internet to work for them for free (concept of a forum).

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Whilst some things can be idiot proofed to a certain degree, there’s few solutions to the issue of sometimes people won’t read a few words before clicking on Yes/OK. :grinning:

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Considering the only time they ever see a Denon unit is if they play at my club, they really couldn’t be bothered changing their music just for the occasional gig. What actually happens is the guys just use the cdj’s instead. +1 for Pioneer, -1 for Denon, problem solved - I guess…

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I’m sure most DJs not happy to be kept in the dark will easily identify with the idea that when a model is two control surfaces, two colour screens, and a 4 channel mixer is around half the price of a single model, that it’s not going to do and read, everything that the expensive single model does.

Replace the 8000 with a pair of Denon DJ SC5000 Primes and it’ll be DJs: +1, Club: +1, Audience: +1 (each).

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the problem here is the stuff that it IS lacking is the kind of stuff it SHOULDN’T. there are things that obviously won’t work ie. color selection of LEDs around Jog wheel on the 8000 like the LED circle on the SC5000 because thats impossible. BUT there are PLENTY of things that the MCX8000 can handle and simply do not right now. and the problem for DJs ready to start USING it, is a lot of that stuff NEEDs to work in order for them to use the equipment properly. beatgrids to make sense of using beat jump is not something that can’t be done. it’s just something that HASN’T been done and the frustration on these forums comes from users (possibly some programmers) that aren’t getting a full featured product until 1+ year later. For the programmers, every time something doesn’t work the way it should, we bang our heads against the wall and yell ‘I could do better than that!’.

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That depends which model you’re referring to, a cdj350 can play 32, 44.1 & 48khz files & is half the price of the 8000. I certainly won’t be an early adopter of the SC5000, lesson learnt from doing that with the 8000. All I’m asking is for you to please ask whoever is responsible for the updates to look into this. Inside the 8000 is: Syphony 56724: http://www.nxp.com/files-static/dsp/doc/data_sheet/DSP56724.pdf Modules from the DSP56720 are included, such as an Asynchronous Sample Rate Converter So theoretically the hardware is capable of it.

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I am curious how we’ve gone from next stage of Engine for MCX8000 to comparing one to Pioneers attempt at a semi-budget CDJ (that has the most awful menu/search/display features I have ever seen).

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Great detective work if it’s true craig :wink: If the hardware inside the MCX8000 really is capable of converting sample rates then the obvious choice that the lack of software support for it was a cost saving measure or to speed up the product launch. Either way, the only question now is will Denon add that support later or skip it. Considering the MCX8000 is already a 1+year on the market I don’t think the chances are good.

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Spotting a chip and nonchantly town-crying “how hard can it be!” are sweet, but can be unrealistic.

The issue can cause a combination of allowing the 8000 to be ready for anything (on-stage), live resampling overheads (alternating wild/no latency).

Nearly every digital sound “chip” has a base sampling rate, afavourite sampling rate, if you will. Plenty of sound chips can handle 2, 3, 4 or more sampling rates but - not always simultaneously.

For example: if a chip defaults to a sampling rate of 48khz, then it presented with a 44.1khz file the chip will switch (hard switch) itself entirely down to 44.1khz. Then however, a track with a different sampling rate is loaded (onto the other deck) while the first track is still playing… the soundchip then has to process two different sampling rates at the same time… and that’s when the fun starts.

The safest alternative is to make the chip one single stable sampling rate only and let it only get presented with that sampling rate. The o

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I totally agree with you. If that’s is how my post comes across I apologise. I’m not trying to say that it’s easy. What I’m trying to put across is that by the looks of things, it is capable. Throughout the discussion, it feels like you are shooting it down without any form of verification. So please DJ_Boothe just ask the guys if it’s possible or not. Give us a straight up answer yes or no, so that we can move on. If it’s not capable, I’ll go cry in the corner on my own. Case closed.

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Engine 1.6 needs to be able to import hotcues and libraries from Traktor